§ MR. WILLIAM AMBROSE (Middlesex, Harrow)I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether there is any Treaty obligation on Great Britain, as distinguished from a mere discretionary right, to interfere in the affairs of Armenia by making war upon or otherwise coercing the Porte in respect of the reforms demanded by the ultimatum lately delivered by England, Russia, and France to the Porte; and if there be such a Treaty obligation will he specify the Treaty and the particular article or articles creating such obligation, and lay a copy of such 870 article or articles upon the Table of the House for the use of Members?
§ THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sir EDWARD GREY, Northumberland, Berwick)The Article of the Treaty of Berlin which is relevant to the point raised by the hon. Member is the 61st.
§ MR. AMBROSEThe question I have asked is, whether Her Majesty's Government in what they are doing are acting upon a sense of duty created by the Treaty or are they acting upon their own view of policy?
§ SIR E. GREYI understood the hon. and learned Member to ask what Treaty is relevant to the action which has been taken by the three Powers in relation to Armenian reforms. I have given him the Article of the Treaty of Berlin, which is certainly relevant to that action, and if he wishes me to give him an interpretation of it I can only reply that the Articles were very carefully drawn, and I must leave the words to speak for themselves.
§ MR. W. AMBROSEI do not ask for an interpretation. What I want to know is, whether the Government are acting upon a sense of their duty created by the Treaty, or are acting upon a policy entirely of their own; and is there any objection why the particular Article should not be printed and laid upon the Table so that Members may be able to form their own opinion upon it?
§ SIR E. GREYThe only objection to printing the Article is that the Treaty is well known, and is accessible in the Library. As regards the action of the Government, they have been acting with two other Powers, but the British Foreign Office have continually made representations to the Porte during the last several years, sometimes under one Government and sometimes under another, and the representations which have been made lately are only in continuation of the policy which has always been pursued by successive Governments.
§ MR. T. GIBSON BOWLES (Lynn Regis)In connection with this question, is it not a fact that Article 61 of the Berlin Treaty lays no obligation whatever upon this country?
§ SIR E. GREYThe hon. Member must form his own opinion as to the whole scope of the Article.
§ MR. GIBSON BOWLESI beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether Her Majesty's Government propose—and, if so, when—to make any statement as regards the action they have taken, and the action they propose to take, with regard to Turkey, and to the affairs of those Turkish subjects known as Armenians; and, when they propose to lay any Papers on the subject on the Table of this House, or in any other way to give the country information as to the policy they have pursued and are pursuing?
§ SIR E. GREYAs has been previously stated, a project of reforms has been presented to the Porte by the Embassies of Great Britain, France, and Russia. The full text of the reply of the Sultan has only been received within the last few days, and till it has been considered by the three Governments, no further statement can be made. Papers cannot therefore yet be laid on the Table.
§ MR. GIBSON BOWLESIs the project of reforms as published in the English papers the correct text of the document; and, inasmuch as the English translation of the document was telegraphed from Paris, was it supplied by an English official?
§ SIR E. GREYThere is another question on the Paper as to that. The answer is, that, with the exception, of one or two errors of translation, the version in The Times was substantially correct; but, so far as I know, it was not supplied to the newspapers from any British authority.
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT (Sheffield, Ecclesall)As I understand, the right hon. Gentleman has replied to my later question, I wish to ask whether he is aware that the scheme of reforms published in the newspapers contained no fewer than 15 now sets of officials?
§
[The later question standing on the Paper in the name of the hon. Member was as follows:—
Sir Ellis Ashmead-Bartlett,—To ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether the statement of administrative changes in Turkey, published by the newspapers on 6th June, is a correct version of that presented by France, Russia, and England to the Porte."]
§ * MR. SPEAKERThere is a later question in the name of the hon. Member 872 on the Paper, and the hon. Gentleman had better ask his question in his proper turn.
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETT rose amid cries of "Order!"
§ * MR. SPEAKERThe hon. Member is asking a question which arises out of a future question.
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTNo, Sir. [Cries of "Order!"] I beg pardon. May I be allowed to explain that the hon. Baronet has just answered my question? He stated so. ["Order, order."] I am speaking to order.
§ * MR. SPEAKERThe Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs referred to part of an answer which he was going to give to the hon. Member; and it is out of question No. 19 that the further question of the hon. Member arises.
§ MR. A. J. MUNDELLA (Sheffield, Brightside)I should like to ask my hon. Friend whether he can make any statement as to when the Report of the International Commission is likely to be laid before the House?
§ SIR E. GREYThe proceedings of the Commission are not yet closed; the official report is not yet received, and I cannot say when it will be. It is not expected that the inquiry will last much longer.
§ SIR E. ASHMEAD-BARTLETTasked whether the Under Secretary for Foreign Affairs was aware that this scheme proposed to establish no less than 15 new sets of officials for the administration of some of the poorest provinces of Turkey.
§ SIR E. GREYI have stated that the scheme as published is correct. I admit of course, that it does include the appointment of some fresh officials, but I have not calculated the number exactly.
§ MR. W. E. M. TOMLINSON (Preston)asked whether the right hon. Gentleman could give the House some idea of the cost of carrying out the scheme?
§ SIR E. GREYsaid, that he could not answer the hon. and learned Gentleman's question.