§ Considered in Committee.
§ (In the Committee.)
§ MR. HANBURY moved: That it is expedient to authorise the remission of certain debts due from the Commissioners of Anstruther Union Harbour to the Public Works Loan Commissioners, also the remission of interest accrued on loans to the Donegal Railway Company, and also the remission of certain loans under the Labourers' Dwellings Act in Ireland, in pursuance of any Act of the present Session to grant money for the purpose of certain Local Loans, and for other purposes relating to Local Loans.
MR. T. M. HEALYasked if it would not have been more regular if they had taken Order No. 9 before No. 4.
§ THE CHAIRMAN (Sir JOHN GORST)It is Order No. 9.
§ THE CHAIRMAN (Sir JOHN GORST)Order No. 4 has already been taken.
MR. T. M. HEALYBut would it not have been more regular that we should have taken one Order before the other.
§ THE CHAIRMAN (Sir JOHN GORST)I have no authority to pronounce on the order of the general proceedings of the House.
§ * MR. HANBURYI believe it is in accordance with practice, to take this after the Second Reading.
MR T. M. HEALYOn former occasions an entirely different course has been taken. I think it is extremely desirable we should have one course taken.
§ DR. TANNERsaid, they ought to have some explanation of the course that had been adopted by the right hon. Gentleman. They were going to pass—
§ THE CHAIRMAN (Sir JOHN GORST),said, the hon. Gentleman was out of order. The House ordered that this Resolution must be taken. If the hon. Gentleman wished to address the Committee he must address himself to the Resolution.
§ DR. TANNERsaid, he would be delighted to do so. He thought they were entitled to some reply from the right hon. Gentleman as to why this Vote was being taken out of its proper course.
§ THE CHAIRMAN (Sir JOHN GORST)said the Resolution was not taken out of its proper order.
MR. T. M. HEALYsaid, in view of the period of the Session it was most essential and desirable to know where they stood. This was a class of case in which jobbery was always possible. He remembered that, on a Public Loans Bill in 1881, the First Lord of the Treasury kept the House up for hours because remissions had been got from the Treasury at the time of the tithe troubles. It was in regard to Bills of this kind that jobbery could be done. There was a loan to the Anstruther Harbour Board which it was proposed to remit. It was material that the Committee should have the facts of that case; and, also, if there was a precedent for the action of the Government it ought to be given.
§ * MR. HANBURYsaid, the usual course had been followed in regard to orders of this kind. As the hon. Member seemed to imply that there might be some possibility of jobbery in connection with the Anstruther Harbour, he should mention that this was a simple proposal to which the late Government had pledged themselves, and which, therefore, the present Government were bound to carry out, to remit £23,000 owed by the 1375 Commissioners of the Harbour in consideration of £1,000 paid by Mr. Williamson, who at the time the arrangement was made last May was a Member of the House. With regard to the, loan of £40,000 to the Donegal Railway Company, no part of the principal had been paid by the Company, and they were also in arrear with the interest. But recently, owing to the possibility of borrowing money at a low rate, the Company were able to clear off the loan of £40,000 and compounded for the interest.
MR. T. M. HEALYthought the Anstruther Harbour Commissioners were lucky in getting off with a loan of £19,000 in consideration of paying, £1,000. But why was this favour shown them?
§ * MR. HANBURYsaid, the harbour had fallen into so bad a state that its revenue was totally insufficient to keep it in a state of repair. There was, therefore, no possibility of paying back the loan and interest; and when the Government was made this offer of £1,000 they thought it better than nothing and remitted what was practically a bad debt.
§ Resolution agreed to; to be reported on Saturday.