§ SIR G. BADEN-POWELLI beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs what is the northerly limit to the British sphere of influence in East Africa which is claimed by Her Majesty's Government; and whether the assent of France has been given to the delimitation of the north-westerly portions of that sphere as set out in the Treaty of the 12th of May, 1894, concluded with His Majesty King Leopold II., Sovereign of the independent State of the Congo?
§ MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)I beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whence the title of this country is derived to the territories which have been leased to the King of the Belgians; whether the European Powers having interests in Africa are parties to the arrangement, and recognise the title of this country to these territories; whether Her Majesty's Government have considered the bearing on the arrangement of the rights of preemption possessed by France over the territories of the Congo State; whether the British sphere of influence extends to any territory north, east, or west of the 10th parallel north, which forms the northern frontier of the territory leased to the King of the Belgians; and if there be any territory within the sphere of British influence, whether he will state what is its northern, eastern, and western frontier?
§ * SIR E. GREYThe territories leased to the King of the Belgians are within the British sphere of influence as 1421 defined in the Anglo-German Agreement of 1890, to which no exception has been taken by any Power having interests in Africa. The effect of the Agreement with the King of the Belgians is that the British sphere, already recognised by Germany and Italy, is also recognised by the Congo State, another adjoining Power, the rights which Turkey and Egypt may have being specially reserved. Any rights of pre-emption which France may possess over the Congo State cannot be affected by the Agreement, which is dependent upon the continuance of the Congo State under the Sovereignty of the King of the Belgians or His Majesty's successors. With regard to the limits of the British sphere of influence, I can only refer the hon. Member to the terms of the Agreements with Germany and Italy.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREMay I ask whether I am right in the conclusion I draw from these Agreements, that the British sphere of influence does not extend north on the west side of the Nile beyond parallel 12 degrees, and on the east side of the river beyond parallel 11 degrees, there or thereabouts?
§ * SIR E. GREYSo far as our geographical knowledge extends, we believe the limit is accurately indicated by the line drawn in the map which has been laid on the Table of the House and in the terms of the Agreements to which I have already referred. As to the exact geographical extent of these Agreements, I must ask my hon. Friend to compare these Agreements carefully with the map which we have placed in the Tea Room, and which together will give him the most accurate information that it is in my power, or in that of anyone else, to afford him on the subject.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREWe are speaking of territories larger in extent than Great Britain. Do I derive from my comparison of these two maps a just conclusion that we do not claim any sphere of influence north, on the left bank of the Nile, beyond the 12th parallel, and on the right bank only up to the 11th parallel? I do not tie my hon. Friend down to 50 or 60 miles, but I ask whether this general conclusion is a correct one?
§ * SIR E. GREYIt is quite true that the territories in question are larger than Great Britain, but they have not been so 1422 carefully explored. I have given the hon. Member a reference to the Agreement and to the very best maps in our possession, and he must draw his own conclusion from that information.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREI wish to know whether I am really to understand that Khartoum is not in the British sphere of influence?
§ * SIR E. GREYNo point as far north as Khartoum has been named in the Agreements to which I have referred as being within the British sphere of influence.