HC Deb 24 May 1894 vol 24 cc1187-8
MR. KNOX (Cavan, W.)

I beg to ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is now aware that the Commissioners for the Reduction of the National Debt are charging the Irish Church Temporalities Fund interest at 3½ and 3¼ per cent. on loans amply secured, the excess of the interest over 3 per cent. amounting to £19,000 a year; whether he is aware that other Irish Public Bodies under popular management, especially the Dublin Corporation, have been able to borrow in the open market at a lower rate of interest; and whether he will take steps either to induce the National Debt Commissioners to reduce the rate of interest to 3 per cent. or, in the alternative, empower the Land Commissioners to raise a loan at 3 per cent, to pay off the debt owing to the National Debt Commissioners?

SIR W. HARCOURT

The money advanced by the National Debt Commissioners on Terminable Annuities to the Irish Church Fund is an investment made by them out of the money of the Savings Banks, and it would be impossible to interfere with that investment by the course proposed in the question without injuriously affecting the Savings Banks Fund.

MR. KNOX

Might I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether that answer would not apply to all loans made by the Public Debt Commissioners?

SIR W. HARCOURT

Yes, Sir; so far as it relates to the Savings Bank Account. At present the Savings Bank Account is dealt with at a rate of interest which is barely paying its own working, and I do not see how that rate could be reduced, and therefore we are obliged to be very careful with respect to receipts on the Savings Bank Account.

MR. KNOX

Do I understand that, this Irish Account has to make up the interest for English investors in the Savings Banks?

SIR W. HARCOURT

You are not to understand that at all. At the time this loan was made it was made at a rate of interest which was considered a proper rate, and we cannot interfere with it until the end of the time for which it was issued, or we should be interfering with the Savings Bank Account for the purpose of benefitting other people.

MR. KNOX

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that this loan is repayable at any time that the Land Commission choose to repay it, and that they are empowered to call for money in the open market for that purpose, and whether it would be any breach of their contract with the National Debt Commissioners if they paid the money at once?

[No answer was given.]