§ MR. LABOUCHEREI beg to ask the Under Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he can state the exact frontiers of the Kingdom of Uganda which it is proposed to include within the new British protectorate; whether the Kingdom of Unyoro is included within that protectorate; whether any of the Kingdoms that are stated by Sir Gerald Portal in his Report to have paid tribute to Uganda are included in that protectorate; whether the British authorities in Uganda received permission from Her Majesty's Government to attack the Kingdom of Unyoro before attacking that Kingdom; whether he can state the number of slaves that are annually released by Her Majesty's vessels, who have been embarked in slave ships from Zanzibar and the adjacent coast, and what is the estimated number of slaves annually shipped from thence, but who are not released; whether any of the porters who were employed by Sir Gerald Portal were slaves; and what is the estimated number of persons now held in slavery in Zanzibar, and in the coast territories now administered by the Chartered Company of West Africa? I may add this question: Is Wadelai within the British protectorate; and, if not, how is the British flag to be maintained after being hoisted there?
§ SIR E. GREYTo the first three paragraphs of the hon. Member's questions I can only repeat the answer that I gave to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham a few days ago—that it is not possible to deal with these matters in the compass of an answer to a question, and that the explanations with regard to them must be reserved until the Debate, when a full statement will be made on these and other points. In answer to the fourth paragraph, as I stated on the 20th of March, I can make no further statement till fuller information has been received. As was stated on the 19th of April, the number of slaves released annually by Her Majesty's vessels for the last five years amounts to 257; the number shipped, and not released, is believed to be very few. Some of the porters employed in Sir G. Portal's caravan, as in all caravans in this part of Africa, no doubt were slaves, but in this case, as in others, the contract for work was made directly with the men, and not with their masters. In answer to the last paragraph, I can only say that we have no census of the population, and I can give no estimate, but the great complaints of the increasing scarcity of labour in Zanzibar prove that the number of slaves is diminishing. No instructions, I may add, have been sent to occupy Wadelai, but we are waiting for full information.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREMay I ask whether, as is to be presumed, Her Majesty's Government have made up their minds to assume a Protectorate; if so, over what portion of the country it is to be assumed; and whether the hon. Gentleman will furnish the House with a map with the frontiers of the Protectorate clearly defined?
§ * MR. J. A. PEASE (Northumberland, Tyneside)Is it not a fact that the larger portion of the pay which the slaves receive is handed back by the slaves to those slave masters, who practically let them out?
§ MR. DARLINGasked whether, as a slave was the property of some one else, he could make a contract?
§ SIR E. GREYAt the present moment there is a great scarcity of labour in Zanzibar. As to pay, I understand that the contract is made with the men, and care is taken that while they are engaged in the expedition they shall be fairly treated, 603 but I cannot say what further arrangements are made. A map has for some time been in preparation, and I hope it will be distributed to-morrow.
§ SIR C. DILKE (Gloucester, Forest of Dean)May I ask whether the hon. Member means another map beyond the one which has been distributed? The map already sent out does not show Wadelai.
§ SIR G. BADEN-POWELLI should like to know whether, in the map about to be presented, the northern boundary of our sphere of influence will be distinctly marked?
§ SIR E. GREYThat is a point on which a full statement is reserved for Debate, and it is impossible to prepare a map until that statement has been made.
§ MR. LABOUCHEREAm I to understand that the only map we are to have is the one in which the frontiers of the contemplated Protectorate are not laid down, and on which Wadelai is not shown?
§ SIR E. GREYWill the hon. Gentleman show me the map to which he refers; I shall then be able to understand what he refers to?
§ SIR C. DILKEOn the Motion for the adjournment of the House, on Thursday, I will ask the Chancellor of the Exchequer to name a day for the Debate on Uganda.
§ * MR. J. A. PEASEWith regard to the alleged increased scarcity of labour, and the hon. Baronet's statement that the number of slaves is diminishing in Zanzibar, may I ask if however it is not a fact that the production due to slave labour from the clove plantations has been greater during last year, than in some previous years?
§ SIR E. GREYI require notice of a question as to the production of the clove plantations.