§ MR. T. M. HEALY (Louth, N.)I beg to ask the Secretary of State for 1009 War on what tenure the War Department held Richmond Prison, Dublin; what is the instrument of letting; and who signs the receipts for rent?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANThe first two questions have already been answered by my right hon. Friend the Chief Secretary for Ireland. The persons who sign the receipts for rent are James Sanderman Winter, Henry Hayes, Edmund W. Eyre, and John Doyle.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYIt is because I could not get any reply from the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary that I put this question to the right hon. Gentleman. I could not get from him any statement as to what was the tenure on which the Prisons Board allowed the War Office to occupy this prison.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANUnder the clause of the statute dealing with this matter the prison is handed over to the War Office for use for a public purpose—namely, as a barrack, and so long as it is employed for that purpose it remains in the possession and occupation of the public department so using it, subject to the payment of the ground rent. When the user ceases it will revert, after a brief interval, to the original authorities who held it before the legislation came into effect.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYI wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman, what is to prevent the Prisons Board from exacting £1,000 a year or £10,000 a year from the War Office, or serving them with a notice to quit if they do not pay it?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANI hope they will not do it. The statute lays down that the building may be used for any public purpose, although we pay no rent to the Prisons Board; and the option, so far as the option exists, is our option, not theirs.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYI will call attention to this matter, which is a grave matter so far as the citizens of Dublin are concerned, on the first opportunity.
DR. KENNYI wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman will the War Office Authorities in their controversy with the Dublin Corporation over the main drainage scheme take into consideration the fact that they enjoy this building without rent as a reason for not demanding an exorbitant sum from the Main Drainage Committee?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANIt is quite true that a public department gets the use of this building without paying any rent, and that this is put forward as a grievance by the Dublin Corporation. On the other hand, the Dublin Corporation under the same statute have been relieved of the cost of maintaining the prisons within their borders.
DR. KENNYWith all respect, that is no answer to my question. Will the right hon. Gentleman take into consideration the fact that the Dublin Corporation gets no rent for this building when he comes to deal with them over the main drainage question in which the War Office Authorities are endeavouring to extract £100,000 from the citizens of Dublin?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANI do not think it is quite fair that that statement should be made. I do not think the two things have anything to do with each other, nor do I think that under any circumstances the War Office, being a public Department, should pay rent for this building to the Dublin Corporation.
§ MR. T. M. HEALYHow many disused prisons in England were handed over to the War Office for barracks, and how many were turned into playgrounds and open sites?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANI cannot say.
DR. KENNYI beg also to give notice that on Monday next I shall call attention to this matter on going into Committee of Supply.