HC Deb 08 January 1894 vol 20 cc1006-8
MR. MACARTNEY (Antrim, S.)

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland what is the number of persons appointed under "The Irish Education Act, 1892," to act as the Derry School Attendance Committee; how many are school patrons or managers, and how many are not; whether the Commissioners in appointing the remainder of the Committee are bound to have regard to the status of those already appointed by the Local Body, and to the provisions of the third section of the Statute; and what steps will be taken to enforce the provisions of the third section?

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. J. MORLEY,) Newcastle-upon-Tyne

Ten persons in all have been appointed by the School Attendance Committee, of whom three are school managers and seven are not. The Commissioners of National Education appointed their half of that committee, and the same rule applies to other appointments of the same kind, having duo regard to the status of the persons appointed by the Local Authorities under the provisions of the third section of the Act to which my hon. Friend refers. Nothing more is required on behalf of the Commissioners. The three school managers who are on the committee were all appointed by the Commissioners.

MR. MACARTNEY

Will the right hon. Gentleman ascertain whether the third section of the Act does not require that one-half of the School Attendance Committee shall be school managers; and whether, having regard to the fact that the Local Authority proposed to add only three, it does not fall upon the National Education Board to see that the third section is fully complied with with regard to these requirements?

MR. J. MORLEY

I do not know whether the hon. Member has the section in mind—

MR. MACARTNEY

I have it here.

MR. J. MORLEY

So much the better. If he refers to it he will see the words are "wherever they are available," or wherever they are practicable, but I believe the word is "available." There are some places where all the schools have only one manager, and in cases of that kind it is clear that the Commissioners could not carry out the general intentions of the section in question. But in this case the Commissioners seem to have done all that they could do; and it appears to be the Local Authority who failed to observe the third section.

MR. MACARTNEY

Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that there are six school managers in Derry who would have been available for appointment in addition to the Roman Catholics? Is he advised that the onus does not fall upon the Board of National Education to comply with the section? Is there anything in the Act to show that the Local Authorities have to appoint the managers instead of the National Board?

MR. J. MORLEY

As far as I can recollect the wording of the sub-section, the responsibility falls equally. The Commissioners, however, did the best they could under the circumstances.

MR. MACARTNEY

Is the School Attendance Committee, as now constituted in Derry, legally constituted?

MR. J. MORLEY

As far as I know, it is; but I should like notice of the question.

MR. MACARTNEY

I will ask a further question on that point on Thursday. But will the right hon. Gentleman in the meantime obtain the opinion of the Law Officers of the Crown on the point as to whether the onus of responsibility rests with the National Board?

MR. J. MORLEY

No, I cannot undertake, upon the mere statement of a doubt which has arisen in the hon. Member's own mind, to take the opinions of the Law Officers upon it; but if the hon. Gentleman requires information on that point, I will endeavour to give it him in answering a question if he will put one down.

MR. SEXTON (Kerry, N.)

I wish to ask whether, as in this case where the Local Authority appointed all Protestants and no school managers, the Commissioners were bound to appoint all school managers; and if there was only one school manager in a place, could the Local Authority by such a device compel them to practically exclude Catholics from the committee?

MR. J. MORLEY

I take it that the Commissioners of National Education would feel bound in a case of that kind, where all the persons are of one religious communion, to look to other considerations besides the fact of a man being or not being a school manager.