HC Deb 02 January 1894 vol 20 cc657-8
VISCOUNT CRANBORNE (Rochester)

I beg to ask the Vice President of the Committee of Council on Education in what Circular before the passing of the Education Act of 1891 the Managers or teachers were informed that a compulsory charge for books which became the property of the parents was illegal; and whether a compulsory charge for books which remain the property of the school is equally illegal; and, if not, upon what authority a distinction is made by the Department?

MR. ACLAND

No Circular to this effect was issued before 1891, but the principle was laid down in particular cases. There is no distinction in legality between compulsory charges for books which do or do not become the property of the parents.

VISCOUNT CRANBORNE

Will the right hon. Gentleman allow me to move for a Return of any communications with Managers of schools informing them of that decision?

MR. ACLAND

The noble Lord will see that to examine the records from 1870 to 1891 would be an extremely difficult matter. I have no doubt I could discover some cases, and if he wishes ho can see them, but be must be aware that before free education came in the matter was on a different footing.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON (Shropshire, Oswestry)

Did not the Department actually issue a Circular to the effect that the acceptance of the Grant would not restrict the liberty of Managers to charge a reasonable sum for books?

MR. ACLAND

The Grant was given in a large number of schools, but the Act of 1891 made it illegal to charge for the use of the books. I have done my best to explain the matter to the hon. Gentleman many times.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

Does the right hon. Gentleman contradict the fact that the Circular from which I have quoted was issued?

MR. ACLAND

I have not got the Circular.

MR. STANLEY LEIGHTON

I have; and I will read it—"Where the average rate"—[Cries of "Question!"]

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER

If the hon. Member wishes further information he must give notice.

VISCOUNT CRANBORNE

Was not the intention of the Act of 1891 to leave the resources of schools completely untouched; and is it not a fact that the decision of the Department does, in the opinion of Managers, seriously diminish those resources?

MR. ACLAND

The whole question of the working of the Free Education Act is now under the careful consideration of the Department. I have often explained the principle on which the Department acts, and if it interferes with schools I am afraid it is the inevitable result of the Act itself.