ARMY ESTIMATES, 1893–4. (Hansard, 13 September 1893)

§ VISCOUNT WOLMER (Edinburgh, W.)
said, he wished to have some information, if not now, at any rate, before the next Estimates were presented, respecting the payment of the Capitation Grant, as to whether it would not be possible for the Treasury to lend money to corps at a less interest than the corps were able to get it on the strength of their own credit. Some corps had their armoury and drill-hall provided for them, while other corps had not, and it was for these purposes that the money was required. In some cases the money was given by private individuals, who took an interest in the corps; but other corps, which were not so favourably situated, had to borrow the money and pay interest for it out of the Capitation Grants. Could not this money be advanced by the Treasury? He also wished to know whether the allowance of £100 for each battery in position was enough; and whether there had been a movement in the district of Edinburgh for the formation of a corps of fortress engineers? There was permission given by the War Office for the formation of such a corps, which he understood had been withdrawn. He earnestly asked, before the next Estimates were framed, if the Secretary of State for War would consider the desirability of re-granting this permission. Then as to the mobilisation scheme, the people of Edin- 1114 burgh and neighbourhood wanted to know what provision was to be made when, in the event of mobilisation, troops of all kinds wore withdrawn and taken away to the South. He also asked the Secretary of State for War to reconsider the point as to the desirability of bestowing decorations on Volunteer privates before next year.

§ MR. TOMLINSON (Preston)
said, he desired to support some of the suggestions made by the noble Lord opposite. As to the Capitation Grant, it appeared to him that it would be a good plan to lend money in advance to such corps as might desire it. At present, not only had a high interest to be paid, but officers had to borrow on their own personal security. He did not suppose this involved any risk, as the Capitation Grant was sure to come ultimately; but many men did not care to give a personal security to their banker. As to engineers, he hoped the War Office would take into consideration the desirability of making the proposed extension. There were a great many skilled persons who would be invaluable in the Volunteers in carrying out engineering duties, who, at present, did not think it worth while to join the Service. If the Volunteers were ever called out, the necessity for men of this kind would be felt, and would have to be met. Another point was as to requiring adjutants to alter their uniforms, in some cases to take off their gold lace and change it for silver. He did not know why this should be a universal rule in connection with the Volunteer Infantry. In some cases the uniforms of the Regular regiments of the battalion to which the Volunteers were attached was exactly the same as that of the Volunteers, with the exception of the lace. It was an advantage to Volunteers to have the services of an adjutant who was a trained soldier, but it was very hard that when an officer took the position of adjutant in a Volunteer regiment he should be put to the expense of altering his uniform.

§ COLONEL HOWARD VINCENT (Sheffield, Central)
said, the whole Service was delighted to hear that Her Majesty had been pleased to recognise the services 1115 of the non-commissioned officers by bestowing the new decoration upon them. He thought, however, that these decorations would be more valuable if given not altogether for length of service but for special service or efficiency. As a Volunteer Commanding Officer, he desired to thank the right hon. Gentleman for his good offices. But he earnestly hoped that the right hon. Gentleman would take steps to make up the deficiency in the number of subalterns. At present they were 1,500 short, and in some battalions the evil was becoming more and more serious.

§ THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR WAR (Mr. CAMPBELL - BANNERMAN,) Stirling, &c.
In reply to the noble Lord the Member for West Edinburgh, I would ask him to assist me by recalling the points to which he has referred to my memory in the future. Several of the points are well worthy of consideration. As to the question of advancing money from the Treasury, I am afraid I cannot meet the noble Lord. My views upon the matters raised by the hon. Member for Preston are well known, and I am afraid the hon. Gentleman has not urged anything which will cause me to alter those views.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBORNE (Rochester)
said he wished to refer to the sanitary condition of the Windsor Cavalry Barracks.

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
The matter was discussed last night.

§ VISCOUNT CRANBORNE
said, he had read the Debate, but the subject did not seem to have been adequately dealt with. There was serious dissatisfaction with the condition of these barracks. He understood that very severe Reports had been forwarded to the War Office with respect to the condition of the barracks. One Report, made no later than last month, asserted that the condition was so bad that the barracks were 1116 unfit for occupation. There have been one or two cases of sickness, and not long ago a non-commissioned officer, who died at Aldershot shortly after leaving the Windsor Barracks, showed very distinct symptoms of enteric poisoning. It was important that this matter should be looked into and carefully dealt with, in view of the possible approach of the cholera epidemic. The Government would incur serious responsibility if they allowed these barracks to be re-occupied without satisfying themselves as to their sound sanitary condition. He would ask whether the Secretary of State would be willing to, lay upon the Table the Reports of the medical officers who had, on behalf of the War Office, examined the barracks. The danger was not only as to the insanitary condition of the premises, but, as the question had been mooted in another place as well as in this House, there was also a danger of creating a feeling of alarm amongst the troops who had to occupy the barracks. Now that the question had been mooted, the Secretary of State would probably agree that the proper course to adopt would be to take the public into his confidence, and let them see the Reports. If it should turn out that the danger had been exaggerated, he (Viscount Cranborne) would be more pleased than anybody else. Still, they must satisfy themselves whether this was really the case or not.

§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN
It is not usual to lay on the Table purely Departmental Reports, but I can assure the noble Lord that the greatest care has been taken in investigating this question. I can say that the Chief Officer of the Army Medical Department, the Chief Officer of Engineers, and the Quartermaster General, all agree that the system of drainage is old-fashioned and bad. There is no doubt that it ought to be renewed; but that is the case with many barracks in the country. The particularly urgent matter with regard to Windsor Barracks is that in the officers' quarters there has been for some time an offensive smell. That has been traced to a foul latrine, and to other sources unconnected with the drains. These smaller defects will be remedied before the regiment returns. The Director General of the Army Medical Department and his 1117 advisers cannot find anything in the Reports indicating that the general effect on the health of the men has been bad. I am afraid I cannot put the alterations of drains at the Windsor Barracks forward as the first and most urgent case.