§ LORD G. HAMILTON (Middlesex, Ealing)I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he would consider the advisability of following the precedent set by his Government in 1884, and undertake that before the House adjourns a statement shall be made by the Official Representative of the Admiralty as to the scope and cost of the new shipbuilding programme, so that the House may have an opportunity afforded it of expressing an opinion upon such proposals before they are finally settled and embodied in the Estimates of 1894–5?
§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. E. GLADSTONE,) Edinburgh, MidlothianThe question of the noble Lord involves a large proposal, as he is aware. I trust he will not consider that I am showing any want of respect to him if I do not give an answer as to the proposal generally, and if I simply 1150 refer briefly to some points which must influence the judgment of the Government in this matter. In the first place, the question refers to the mode of procedure which was adopted in 1884. Now, the state of things in 1884 was, as we considered, quite exceptional. There was an apprehension, whether just or not, in the public mind—an apprehension which was acknowledged by the then Board of Admiralty and the Government—that there was occasion for special measures, which special measures were sanctioned and adopted. But we do not think that there is any analogy between the present state of things and the state of things then existing. Then tins is the time of year when the Departments responsible for the Army and Navy are engaged in preparing the Estimates, certainly one of the most burdensome and important of their duties, which Estimates we shall submit to Parliament as usual, early in the coming year. The question suggests that before the work is completed the scope and cost of the new programme for shipbuilding shall be announced to the House and the opinion of the nation invited upon it. This suggestion is open to practical objections from many points of view. In the first place, the change would interfere in a manner extremely inconvenient with some of the hardest and most important and most systematic work of the Department, because it would be a departure from the general practice. Giving my own opinion, I must say that nothing is more important, with a. view to preserving any real control by the House of Commons over the establishments of the country, than that the plan of the Government should be submitted to the House once a, year and not in fractions of a year, except in circumstances altogether extraordinary which may give cause for an opposite method of procedure. Another point to bear in mind is that the submission of the Estimates takes place on the responsibility of the Government. They are solely responsible for the Estimates when produced, and until the House of Commons pronounces authoritatively upon the correctness or incorrectness of the views of the Government. If the House of Commons is to be invited to give a probationary opinion on the Estimates, it might very fairly be asked 1151 whether the House of Commons ought not to prepare the Estimates, or, at any rate, to make its views known to those who prepare the Estimates. If we acted on the suggestion of the noble Lord, our announcement of policy would he made in the month of December—I will not undertake to say how early in the month, for that would depend upon circumstances as they developed; and as the Estimates would in the ordinary course of things be submitted in February, the natural course of procedure would be subverted with a view to some gain in time, which in the circumstances would be a very small gain. I think that I may venture to assure the House, on the responsibility of the Government, that neither the House nor the country need entertain, in the existing circumstances, the smallest apprehension as to the maintenance of the distinct naval supremacy of Great Britain.
§ * LOKD G. HAMILTONMay I be permitted to put one further question, as I do not understand the answer of the right hon. Gentleman to be a definite refusal of my proposal? Will the Government consider whether the suggestion which I have made would not result in a great saving of time, as in 1884? Under the procedure then adopted the proposals of the Government received the sanction of the House in December, and the work was put out to contract at once. But if the Government postpone the execution of their proposals until the Estimates can be discussed no real work can be done until the middle of the next calendar year. Will not the gain of time resulting from the acceptance of my suggestion more than counterbalance any inconvenience that may be caused by a departure from the ordinary procedure?
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONEThe impression I have derived from communication with the Admiralty is that the Admiralty will not be able to produce its proposals with due and proper maturity by the time to which the noble Lord refers. The noble Lord must not take it that my answer was in any way an acceptance of the principle of his suggestion.
§ MR. MACFARLANEIs the House to understand that no definite information as to the shipbuilding programme will be afforded before March next, when the 1152 Estimates have been decided upon and it is too late for the House to influence the Government programme?
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONEI have not stated that no Estimates will be submitted before March. My impression is that they will be submitted to the House some time in February. With regard to the definite nature of the Estimates, I am not aware that the Government have indicated any desire to interfere with the full and absolute authority of the House of Commons over them.
§ MR. MACFARLANEWill it be competent for any hon. Member to propose an increase in the Estimates after they are produced?
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONENo, Sir.