HC Deb 01 June 1893 vol 12 cc1850-2

Older for Second Heading read.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Bill be now read a second time."

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

objected.

SIR E. CLARKE

appealed to the hon. Member to withdraw his objection. The Bill was one of great importance, and the public were deeply interested in its passing.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said, he must object to any legislation at that time of the night—after 12 o'clock.

MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne)

said, he had to ask Mr. Speaker, had they no power to prevent this wholesale obstruction?

MR. T. M. HEALY

I understand the hon. Member is the slave of duty.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

The hon. Member is quite right.

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

I am surprised at the hon. Member resisting the appeal from a high authority on his own side of the House, and I would put it to him whether he is using the power which the House has given to single Members to object in its spirit and intent? If the hon. Member objects simply because it is past 12 o'clock he is impeding the Business of the House by acting in contravention of the Rule of the House.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said, he could assure the right hon. Gentleman that he valued his authority as highly as that of any one on his own side of the House, but he believed he was acting in the spirit and intent of the Rule, which was passed for the purpose of preventing hasty legislation, and, inasmuch as this was a Government Bill, and the Government had taken up the whole time of the House, he submitted it was not fair to pass it in a few seconds. It might, at least, be properly explained.

MR. WOOTTON ISAACSON (Tower Hamlets, Stepney)

said, that he had attended in his place night after night in charge of two Bills that had passed the Committee stage and——

MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member is scarcely in Order.

MR. CONYBEARE

asked whether the difficulty could not be got over by a ruling that the hon. Member for King's Lynn was abusing the Forms of the House? He would ask that especially in reference to Order No. 5, the Prison (Officers' Superannuation) Bill, with which the hon. Member had nothing to do.

*MR. SPEAKER

I cannot say that the hon. Member is out of Order, but it is my duty to observe that the power of objecting after 12 o'clock ought to be used with some discrimination and discretion, because I foresee that the time is coining when some change will have to be made to prevent objections which are made indiscriminately.

SIR A. ROLLIT (Islington, S.)

said, he hoped the hon. Member would withdraw his objection. As a lawyer, he knew how desirable it was that the measure should pass. It was not a Bill that could be discussed profitably in the House. It was a subject for experts.

SIR J. LUBBOCK

said, he also hoped the hon. Member for King's Lynn would withdraw his objection. The power of objection after 12 o'clock was very valuable to private Members, and if the privilege was abused it might be withdrawn.

*MR. STUART-WORTLEY (Sheffield, Hallam)

said he would point out that the Standing Order laid down that what could not be taken after 12 o'clock was Opposed Business. The hon. Member for King's Lynn had given express notice to the House that his objection was not dictated by opposition to this particular Bill. In these circumstances, was his opposition an opposition at all?

*MR. SPEAKER

The hon. Member used the words "I object," and that amounts to opposition under the Standing Order.

MR. BARTLEY

wished to add his appeal to those which had already been made.

MR. T. M. HEALY

Hanbury, Hanbury [referring to Mr. Hanbury, the hon. Member for Preston].

MR. BARTLEY

said, the measure, which was of a highly technical nature, ought not to be opposed.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

said, he felt like a lady who had too many suitors for her hand. He had objected because he knew nothing about the Bill, and had had no opportunity of acquiring any knowledge of it. However, as he saw that it came from another place— the Chamber for which the Prime Minister had so great a regard—he would withdraw his objection.

Motion agreed to.

Bill read a second time, and committed for To-morrow, at Two of the clock.