§ MR. STRACHEY (Somerset, S.)In the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for the Maldon Division of Essex, I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury if he will consider the propriety of asking the House to suspend the Rule putting an end to contested Business at 12 p.m. during the present Session, and also that puting an end to contested Business on Wednesday at 5.30, and to pass a Resolution to commence Business on four days in the week at an earlier hour?
§ MR. STOREYI beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether, in considering this question, he will bear in mind that physical endurance is limited, and that the experience of many hon. Members who have been long in this House is that legislation in the small hours of the morning is generally scamped. I will also ask whether the right on. Gentleman has taken note of this—that while the discussion on important Amendments to the Local Government Bill have been, on the whole, conducted in a business-like manner, and not unduly prolonged, very much time had been wasted by the number of speeches made upon trifling Amendments, and I will venture to give to the House as an illustration, so that my right hon. Friend may understand exactly what I am aiming at — [Cries of "Order!"]
§ MR. SPEAKERThis question of the hon. Member is one which contains a good deal of controversial matter, and I hope he will not pursue that line.
§ MR. STOREYI will conclude, then, by asking the right hon. Gentleman if, when the Cabinet is considering the matter, it will take this into account—that it would be very desirable in the interests of the Public Service that the discussion on mere trifling Amendments should be very much curtailed, so that there may be ample time to discuss important Amendments as they arise?
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONEThe hon. Member seems to be endeavouring to erect me, more or less, into a censor of the proceedings of the Committee on the Parish Councils Bill, which position I am not entitle to assume. Still, I think the House will in some degree be impressed by the desire that my hon. Friend has expressed, and which must be 271 generally entertained, that, as far as possible, there should be a proportion in the time consumed as between the smaller and the greater matters. Of course, it is possible that small matters may in some cases have attracted an undue and disproportionate amount of attention of the discussion of this very important Bill, which does tend rather to limit and hamper freedom of discussion of the more important proposals. With respect to the original question, I have nothing to state of a general character on behalf of the Government, except this—that anything like even a temporary abolition of the Twelve o'Clock Rule is undoubtedly one of the last expedients which we should be disposed to resort to, both on account of what has been said by my hon. Friend who spoke last, and likewise because there has been an understanding all along in the House that suspensions of the Twelve o'Clock Rule were to be used occasionally, and only occasionally, and for the purpose of preventing accidental and highly inconvenient interruptions of any important Debate. With regard to the present state of facts which we have considered, the House is aware that under the present Standing Orders a Sitting takes place on Saturday unless a Motion is made for the purpose of preventing it. We should very much desire to be in a position to make that Motion, but we feel we are dependent upon making a certain amount of progress in the discussion this evening. If, according to any fair estimate, a tolerably satisfactory amount of progress is made, then the Secretary to the Treasury will make the usual Motion for the Adjournment of the House till Monday; but if, unfortunately, any miscarriage or any very great delay should occur, he will not be in a condition to make the Motion.
§ MR. COURTNEY (Cornwall, Bodmin)said, that so far as he was concerned, it did not very much matter where he spent his Saturday; but as many hon. Members had made engagements not always of a personal nature, but of a public character, he might suggest that it would be very convenient if the Prime Minister were to give the House some more definite information, so that hon. Members should not be left till 12 o'clock to know whether they had or had not made what the Government chose to re- 272 gard as tolerably satisfactory progress with Public Business.
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONEI have only abstained from stating our estimate of reasonable and satisfactory progress so that there might not appear to be any dictation on our part, but my right hon. Friend asks me what our estimate is. We have considered that matter, and we think that the most moderate estimate we can form of it is that we should close the discussion on Clause 9 and dispose of Clause 10. We might also perhaps take Clause 11, which is not of a very controversial character.
§ MR. GOSCHEN (St. George's,) Hanover SquareThe right hon. Gentleman in charge of the Bill, and perhaps the Prime Minister also, will be aware that there has been an effort made on the Front Opposition Bench to assist in expediting the passing of these clauses; and my right hon. Friends are prepared to use their influence to see that there is no undue delay in the discussion of Clauses 9 and 10. But Clause 10 is an extremely important one. It is a clause restricting the expenditure by Parish Councils, and the clause we have still to discuss was not as originally introduced. I, therefore, do not wish it to be understood that the Opposition consent absolutely and certainly to the passing of Clause 10; but I think there will be every disposition to make as much progress with the clause as they possibly can. There will be no undue delay, but I do not think we can go so far, not knowing what points may be raised, as to say with any certainty that Clause 10 will be allowed to pass.
§ SIR R. PAGET (Somerset, Wells)asked the Leader of the House if it was to be understood from his statement that the intention was that unless Clause 10 was passed through the Committee in its entirety in the course of the evening there was to be a Saturday Sitting. On that question he pointed out that the clause was one of the highest importance, and there were a vast number of Amendments which by no means all came from the Opposition side of the House.
§ MR. W. E. GLADSTONEThe hon. Baronet has only trodden the ground that has been trodden already, and I do not know that I can make any further answer. I may remind the hon. Baronet that we have eight hours, in which it 273 may be hoped that some points even of importance may be disposed of.