HC Deb 18 August 1893 vol 16 cc529-32
MR. DALZIEL (Kirkcaldy, &c.)

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether ho can state, for the general convenience of Members, when the Government calculate that the House will be able to adjourn for the Recess; and what steps, if any, are proposed to be taken in order to secure that a reasonable time shall be allowed to elapse between the period of adjournment and the reassembling in the Autumn?

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

I am very sensible that it would be very much for the convenience of the House, and the Government are as anxious as anybody can be for the arrival of that happy period when the House can adjourn; but my hon. Friend will see that, the Government are under certain specific obligations with regard to Home Rule and Supply, and, therefore, our contribution to the Business of the House is known and fixed. The thing that is not yet accurately known and fixed is the amount of impediment which we shall have to encounter in the shape of Amendments and collateral discussions. With regard to that impediment and that contribution to the length of the Sitting of the House, it is obvious that gentlemen on the Opposition Benches and the gentlemen on the Benches behind my hon. Friend would be able to give a good deal more information than I can.

MR. HANBURY

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman by what right he describes as an impediment to the Business of the House the ordinary discussion of the Estimates which has been so much curtailed this Session?

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

The hon. Member has entirely misapprehended the language I used. I never spoke of the discussion on the Estimates as an impediment to the Business of the House. I spoke of it as an impediment to the Adjournment of the House.

MR. DALZIEL

I beg to direct the attention of the right hon. Gentleman to the latter portion of my question?

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

I am very much afraid I must return to him also what will be regarded as an unsatisfactory reply in regard to this portion of the question, which I thought was really involved in the former portion. My hon. Friend asks me What steps are proposed to be taken in order to secure that a reasonable time shall be allowed to elapse between the period of adjournment and the re-assembling in the Autumn? I do not see what answer that admits of beyond the fact that we are very desirous, first of all, that the Adjournment should arrive within reasonable time; and, secondly, that it should be found in our power to allow a reasonable vacation before asking the House to resume those labours which have in the present year reached such an extraordinary extension.

MR. HANBURY

If the discussion of Supply is to be an impediment to the Adjournment of the House, I wish to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman will consent to put Supply down for Autumn Session?

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

No.

MR. DALZIEL

Arising out of answer to my question, I desire to the Prime Minister whether his attention has been directed to an important article upon Parliamentary procedure, with special reference to the possibility of what is termed obstruction in Supply, in which the following proposal is put forwar:— If the House insists on its ancient Constitutional right to deal with Supply in Committee as a whole, then the only remedy (for the possible obstruction) appears to be for the House to fix beforehand, on entering on the consideration of Supply, the number of days which shall be given to each Class of the Estimates, and to order the Committee to report each Class at the expiry of the time named. The same action must be taken on the Report stage, if necessary—

MR. TOMLLNSON (Preston)

I rise to a point of Order. I wish to ask whether this question arises out of the question which the hon. Member put on the Paper?

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER

The hon. Member can put his question. I see nothing out of Order in it. The Prime Minister can answer it, or ask for notice, just as he pleases.

MR. GIBSON BOWLES

On a point of Order, Sir, is the hon. Member justified, under the guise of asking a question, in reading a long newspaper article?

MR. DALZIEL

I may be allowed to say, in explanation, that it is only fair to the writer that I should read the whole passage. It is a very short one— The same action must be taken on the Report stage, if necessary, and the Opposition would have to arrange among themselves those questions of policy and detail which they might desire to raise in each section, in order to concentrate their energies on those, instead of frittering time away.

MR. HANBURY

I rise to Order. I wish to ask you whether it has not been constantly ruled by the Chair that quotations of this kind shall not be put down in questions, and whether that Rule does not apply in the present case?

MR. DALZIEL

The quotation is finished.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER

I was going to call the attention of the hon. Member to the fact that I think he is now decidedly exceeding the limits.

MR. DALZIEL

I will simply put my question, whether, in view of the fact that the writer of the article is the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham, the Government will be prepared, in the event of the necessity arising, to give the suggestion that consideration which its importance seems to deserve?

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER

It seems to me that this is a question of which notice ought to be given.

MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN (Birmingham, W.)

I think the question of the hon. Member shows the inconvenience of not putting questions of this kind on the Paper.

MR. DALZIEL

I rise to Order, Sir.

MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN

I claim, as a matter of personal explanation, to say that the article from which the hon. Gentleman has just quoted did not suggest that the House should deal with this matter, hut that a Committee—a nonparty Committee—should be appointed, which might consider this and kindred subjects.

MR. W. E. GLADSTONE

I do not think any advantage would arise from my making any comment on the subject.