§ MR. HAVELOCK WILSON (Middlesbrough)I beg to ask the President of the Board of Trade if he is aware that the agent of the Shipping Federation at South Shields supplied seamen and firemen on Tuesday last to ships lying in the Port of Hull in contravention of the Merchant Shipping Act of 1854; that the London agent of the Shipping Federation, by representations, alleged to be force, induced 90 British seamen and firemen to go to Southampton on the understanding that they were to be engaged on steamers from that port; and that those men were made drunk, and put on board German steamers bound to Hamburg, to take the places of the German seamen and firemen on strike at that port; and if he will, under the circumstances, instruct the 440 British Consul to insist that those men shall be sent home, and all expenses paid? Before the right hon. Gentleman replies I should like to ask whether he is aware of the fact that a crimp named Gustav Hoy, whose address is Denison Street, Liverpool, has conveyed 90 men to the Port of Hull, and that they are now being detained on board one of Messrs. Charles Wilson's steamers, although a large number of men are willing to come on shore, provided they could get there; and what steps he proposes to take with the view of securing these men's liberation, and whether the Board of Trade will prosecute this crimp for supplying the men?
§ MR. MUNDELLAI will answer the last part of the question first. I only received notice of it to-day at 1 o'clock, and it is dated to-day. I immediately put the telegraph in motion, and it is as yet impossible for me to say what has occurred. If my hon. Friend will repeat his question to-morrow, or on some future day, I hope to be able to answer it. With respect to the question on the Paper, I have ascertained that some men were taken to Hull some days since by an officer of the Shipping Federation at South Shields. No information has been furnished which enables me to say whether or not there has been any contravention of the Merchant Shipping Act, 1854. If any such information is furnished to me it will be carefully considered. With respect to the second question, I find, upon inquiry, that the London agents of the Hamburg-American Packet Company sent between 80 and 90 firemen and trimmers to Hamburg, viâ Southampton, on the 7th instant. These men on arrival alleged that they had been induced to leave London under representations made to them by the company's agents, and claimed compensation from the company. But the company's agent states that they were engaged on Tower Hill in response to a notice asking for firemen, &c, in answer to which there were four times the applicants for the vacancies. Her Majesty's Consul General communicated with the company's representatives, who declared that as the men threw them over and repudiated any sort of engagement they would have nothing whatever to do with them. The Consul General has provided for their 441 housing and maintenance, and for their return to this country. The question of liability for their expenses will be settled hereafter. The company's agents say that the men were not drunk, and knew quite well that they were bound for Hamburg; and the Southampton Dock Police Superintendent states that the men were not drunk upon arrival at Southampton. The company's agent in London called at the Board of Trade to-day and said that the men, when they left, were perfectly sober. I have received a statement in reference to this case from the Consul General at Hamburg, and shall be happy to show it to the hon. Member.
MR. J. H. WILSONIs the right hon. Gentleman aware that these men were engaged and paid by the agent of the Shipping Federation at the Shipping Federation Office, in Well Street, London?
§ MR. MUNDELLAI am not aware of the fact. On the contrary, the agents of the Hamburg Line called and assured me that they engaged men themselves upon instructions received from Hamburg.
MR. J. H. WILSONI will ask——[Cries of "Order!''] I am not out of Order. I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman if my statement is absolutely correct as to the 90 men obtained by the crimp residing in Denison Street, Liverpool, and whether he will take proceedings against that man for illegally supplying the men in contravention of the Merchant Shipping Act?
§ MR. MUNDELLAIf any evidence is brought before me, proving crimping on the part of anybody, I shall not fail to put the law in operation. But it has always been the practice of the Board of Trade not to interfere with a labour dispute if they can avoid it. I think the hon. Member will admit it would not be fair of the Board of Trade to take action either against the Union which he represents, or against the Federation for supplying men, unless such action comes under the law as to crimping.
MR. J. H. WILSONHow is it that we can always get evidence of the supply of men illegally, and that the Board of Trade officials fail to get that evidence?
§ MR. MUNDELLAIf the hon. Gentleman can obtain evidence to prove crimping he has only to submit it to the Board of Trade and it will be sifted to the bottom, and, if found to be reliable, it will be acted upon.