HC Deb 14 April 1893 vol 11 cc329-30
MR. A. J. BALFOUR (Manchester, E.)

I beg to ask the Secretary of State for War whether, under the Government of Ireland Bill, it will be in the absolute discretion of the Lord Lieutenant or other officials acting upon the advice or under the orders of the Irish Administration, to direct British troops to maintain the authority and enforce the measures of the proposed Irish Legislature?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

The duty of preserving order, or, to employ the usual phrase, "the Queen's peace," will, of course, rest with the Irish Executive, who will be responsible for civil order. If the civil force was inadequate in any instance, a requisition would be made for the aid of the military force, and compliance with such a requisition must be at the discretion of the Lord Lieutenant as representing Her Majesty. I do not understand what the right hon. Gentleman means by the measures of the Irish Legislature; no "measure" has any effect until it obtains the Queen's Assent and becomes law.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Am I right in understanding that it is in the absolute discretion of the Lord Lieutenant, acting on the advice of the Irish Government alone, to direct British troops to maintain the authority of the proposed Irish Legislature?

*MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

No, Sir; I did not say so; I did not say "acting on the advice of the Irish Government" or, as the right hon. Gentleman puts it, "under the orders of the Irish Government." The Lord Lieutenant in no case would act "under the orders" of the Irish Government. What I mean is that, as the head of the Army representing Her Majesty, in that capacity he would be entitled to exercise some discretion if the application appeared to be frivolous or unreasonable.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

If I rightly understand, the Lord Lieutenant acts under the advice of the Irish Cabinet, or, as it is called in the Bill, the Irish Government?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

In Irish matters.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Would the Lord Lieutenant be required to act under the advice of the Irish Cabinet in directing the forces of the Crown against what the Irish Government themselves conceived to be some action derogatory to their dignity or against their power?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

No, Sir; I do not suppose that any requisition would be considered reasonable which merely invited the use of the troops against any course of action which the Irish Executive considered derogatory to their dignity. I am speaking of the maintenance of public order as distinct from riot and disorder, and in that case the requisition would go forward in the ordinary way, as it does in this country, from those responsible for the maintenance of order to those who were in command of the military force, and the personage in supreme command of that military force being the Lord Lieutenant, he would comply with the requisition unless it was, in his opinion, an unreasonable or frivolous demand.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

As I understand the right hon. Gentleman, the Lord Lieutenant has a discretion in this matter apart from the advice of the Irish Government. Has the Lord Lieutenant a discretion in other matters apart from the advice of the Irish Government?

MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMAN

That is not within the Military Department.