HC Deb 26 May 1892 vol 4 cc1912-4
MR. TIMOTHY HEALY (Longford, N.)

I beg to ask the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland whether he will grant the Return relating to the transfer of Richmond Prison to the War Office, and the sums expended on the prison by the Dublin Corporation?

MR. JACKSON

I understand there is no objection to a Return asking the Dublin Corporation to state the sums expended by the Corporation on the site and buildings of the Richmond Prison, the date thereof, and the acreage covered by the prison and the grounds. This appears to have been what was promised by the First Lord of the Treasury and the Financial Secretary to the War Office. I do not think there is any connection between the expenditure on Mountjoy and Richmond Prisons, and the amount expended by the Dublin Corporation. But there is no desire to withhold any information which the hon. Member or the House may wish, but perhaps it would be more convenient to give that information if he would put a question as to the expenditure for the last three years or for any period of time he likes as to the expenditure on Mountjoy Prison. There is no objection to state what has been the expenditure, but we wish to keep separate the two questions, because the Irish Government could not admit that the expenditure on Mountjoy is in any way connected with the removal or change of prisons.

MR. T. M. HEALY

I will raise the question of the additional expenditure on Mountjoy on the Vote on Account, if that is a convenient way. May I ask the right hon. Gentleman to answer that portion of the question which asks how much advantage the War Office or the Government estimate they have gained by getting a free barracks for their troops? And I may remind him that, while the Dublin Corporation maintain that the Government got a £100,000 property without any compensation, the Government hesitated, nay, absolutely refused, to give more than £10,000—I believe not so much as that—towards building a new Court House in Green Street.

MR. JACKSON

Of course, Mr. Speaker, I cannot discuss the case now, but the view of the Irish Government is that there is no connection between the two questions. The prison was handed over to the War Office in accordance, as the Irish Government believe, with the powers under the Statute, and under these circumstances the Dublin Corporation are not entitled to any compensation for any act done by the Irish Government in that case. I do not know what the War Office estimate is the profit they have made. Probably the hon. Member will put his question to the Financial Secretary to the War Office.

MR. T. M. HEALY

I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether there have not been cases in England where, in similar circumstances, the War Authorities have given compensation to the amount of £15,000 or £16,000, and whether he sees no connection between how an Irish and an English Corporation should be treated, and no connection between the Government getting a £100,000 property, and then giving nothing for compensation, and refusing to give more, and even less, than £10,000 towards a new Court House?

MR. JACKSON

I do not admit the correctness of the statements.

MR. T. M. HEALY

Can I have the information in the Return?

MR. JACKSON

No. I cannot bring the Return in in any such form, because the Irish Government cannot admit that there is any connection between the two. The Irish Government is perfectly willing to give any information separately which the hon. Member may desire.

MR. T. M. HEALY

May I ask the hon. Gentleman the Financial Secretary to the War Office, who I see is in his place, if he can give me any information as to the estimate of the value placed on the building by the Military Authorities, and how much more they are going to spend on it?

*MR. BRODRICK

No estimate has been made by the War Department as to the value of the building. The building was handed over to the War Office under the Prisons Act, 1877, and I do not think that, in that case, either in England or in Ireland, a Corporation is entitled to compensation.

MR. T. M. HEALY

Can the hon. Gentleman tell me how many more acres the War Office are going to add to this prison, and how much they are going to pay for those acres, and then we can get some idea of the value of it?

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order!

MR. T. M. HEALY

I will raise it on the Vote on Account.