HC Deb 16 June 1892 vol 5 cc1277-9

I beg to ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office if Captains Lugard and Williams have now enjoyed a much longer spell of leave than that usually allowed to regimental officers, and if the Commander-in-Chief would now recall these officers to their regiments; if these officers now receive pay from the War Office; and if these officers receive any pay from the East Africa Company, or money in any other shape?


No question of leave arises, as these officers are seconded in their regiments. The period of seconding is usually for five years. They receive no pay from Army funds, and I have no knowledge as to their emoluments from other sources.

MR. PICTON (Leicester)

had notice later on: To ask the Financial Secretary to the War Office whether Captain Lugard and Captain Williams are in receipt of full or half pay; and, if so, what services do they render Her Majesty in return for it? He now said: I believe the question has already been answered, but am I right in understanding that neither of these officers receives any pay?


Yes, Sir, the hon. Member is quite correct. Neither of these officers receives any pay whatever from the Army funds.

SIR WALTER BARTTELOT: (Sussex, North - West)

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether his attention has been called to a statement in the Times of the 13th instant, with regard to Uganda, that the British East Africa Company have issued an order to abandon it; whether it is the intention of the Government to allow the Company to abandon a sphere which has been allotted to Great Britain; and whether any attempt is to be made to sustain Captain Lugard and his men in the position which they have occupied up to the present time?


Before the First Lord answers I should like to ask a question on the same subject. I should like to ask the First Lord if care will be taken that any additional force under Captain Lugard will not be used either directly or indirectly for the purpose of confiscating the property of Catholics or of taking their lives?


In answer to the hon. and gallant Gentleman (Colonel Nolan), I have to say that he appears to assume, firstly, that Captain Lugard has been employed in the destruction of the Catholics; and, secondly, that Her Majesty's Government have approved of that course. The hon. and gallant Gentleman is entirely in error in both those assumptions. With regard to the question on the Paper in the name of my right hon. and gallant Friend, I have to say that I believe the Company have sent instructions to their agents to retire from Uganda at the end of the year. The Government have not, as I understand the matter, any power to compel them to stay. But it must be borne in mind that the withdrawal of the Company's officers by no means implies the abandonment of the country. I can give no opinion on the question put to me in the last paragraph until we obtain information as to Captain Lugard's actual position and prospects, but I may remind my right hon. and gallant Friend that in our opinion the proper way to maintain our position in Uganda is to construct a railway to the eastern shore of Lake Victoria Nyanza; that the surveys are being rapidly proceeded with, and would so far seem to show that the project presents no engineering difficulties.


I should like to ask the right hon. Gentleman this one other question. As I understand his answer, it is the intention of the Government that we are to maintain the sphere in which Uganda is situated?


I apprehend there is no intention of altering the sphere of British influence.