CLASS IV. (Hansard, 14 June 1892)

§ DR. CLARK (Caithness)
I regret that I cannot increase the sum, and the only course I can take will be to move a reduction. What I wish to say is that the Chancellor of the Exchequer by the course he has taken is hindering the development of free education in Scotland. He allocates this sum, which is equivalent to the English sum, on the theory that Scotland pays eleven per 1060 cent., so that this is eleven-eightietht of the English sum. Yesterday the First Lord of the Treasury stated, that this eleven per cent. had been generally accepted, and therefore he thought is ought to be inserted in the Bill. Now we have never had an opportunity of considering this question at all, because the Chancellor of the Exchequer has not appointed the Committee he promised to give, but has prevented the appointment of that Committee as far as possible. Finding it to be useless to expect the Government to give time, I took the opportunity of balloting in order to have the subject discussed in private members' time, thinking the right hon. Gentleman would gladly accept my aid; but he used the forms of the House to prevent my Motion coming on. I am not going to raise the question, except to say that I protest against this system being carried out on quite different lines from the hon. Member for St. Rollox. I have to thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for this new method of bookkeeping, and I expect that if it is logically carried out then it will mean at least a million and a half of a saving to Scotland. The conduct of the Chancellor of the Exchequer was rather unfair. He first got rid of a great deal of discussion on the Budget by agreeing to grant a Commitee of Inquiry, and he has put off on one pretext or another for two years the appointment of that Committee. Last year there was nothing done, and the Committee was never appointed; this year no Committee has been appointed; one hour's discussion has been given to the subject, and the Chancellor of the Exchequer has prevented the Committee being appointed in private Members' time. Until that Committee has reported this system ought not to be adopted, but I am very glad that the general lines of the Chancellor of the Exchequer's proposal have been adopted. I think that, by the national system of bookkeeping, by-and-bye we shall get one million and a half as the result of it. Unfortunately for Scotland, we are going to suffer because of the application of the principle here. I want to point out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer why it will seriously affect Scotland. The Scotch Office ex- 1061 pect an increase, and we have voted already Estimates for an increase, of three and a half per cent. of children in Scotland. The same Estimates in England are only in respect of a two and half per cent. increase. I hope and trust that, as far as England is concerned, the two per cent. is too low an estimate, and that at least three per cent. will be the increase; and that, in virtue of having free education, there will be a greater increase in the attendance of children in England, and that you may arrive near to our Scotch estimate. Then we shall have more money for Scotland, but I do object to and protest against the educational development of the more advanced country — more advanced simply because for three hundred years Scotland has had national education—being limited and controlled by the development of the less advanced country, and to our getting the money not in proportion to our own wants, but in proportion to the wants of England.

§ *THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. GOSCHEN,) St. George's, Hanover Square
I would only say, in reply to the hon. Member, that I cannot accept his description of the course which has been followed in regard to the Committee as accurate in any degree. I have repeatedly expressed my anxiety to secure the appointment of the Committee, and not only that, but I have tried to induce Members on the opposite side of the House—I have tried to influence the Welsh Members—to withdraw their opposition to the appointment. Although this Committee has not been appointed, I must entirely disclaim any responsibility on the part of the Government. With reference to the particular night to which the hon. Member alludes, the discussion might have been complicated by the fact that his proposal is not the same as the Government proposal, because he proposes that it should be extended to Wales also; besides which, he himself will feel that it is an extremely late period of the Session to enter upon the subject. I regret that this important inquiry has not taken place.

§ DR. CLARK
I have to congratulate the Chancellor of the Exchequer that he has been able to look at this question from our standpoint, and that he has, to a certain extent, gone beyond the position of last year. I think it is a fair sum, and I tender him my thanks that upon this question he has come to our view.