POOR LAW SCHOOLS (IRELAND) BILL.—(No. 276.) (Hansard, 3 June 1892)

§ (4.7.) MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.)
I should like some explanation of this Bill, because it is rather a novel proposal. What it provides is that the travelling expenses of Irish Poor Law Guardians should be paid in certain instances in which the Unions have been combining together for the purpose of building district schools. I am not aware at present of any case where Poor Law Guardians are paid for any purpose in Ireland, and the House will see that to introduce a proposal that the expenses of persons elected to do public duties should be paid out of the Union is a proposal which is novel, and one that must be considered and inquired into before giving it acceptance. The Bill provides that the travelling expenses of not only the Clerk, but also of the Guardians, should be paid out of the rates of the Union. I admit there is considerable protection in the fact that it must be submitted to the vote of the whole Board, and therefore the expenses of individual Guardians are likely to be keenly scrutinised; but I should like to have some further explanation from the right hon. Gentleman opposite as to the number of 564 combinations of Unions now existing to which this Bill would apply; and I should like to know whether he would be prepared to lay before the House a Memorandum or Statement, in some definite form, of the probable number of cases in which the expenditure would arise?

§ *(4.9.) THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. JACKSON,) Leeds, N.
The provisions of this Bill at present, so far as existing schools are concerned, would only apply to one school—

§ MR. SEXTON
Is it an industrial school?

§ *MR. JACKSON
I beg the hon. Member's pardon. I will state that just now. Under the Act there is power for Unions to combine together, and to provide what they call a joint school to which children from the workhouse may be sent in order to get them out of the atmosphere of the workhouse. When the Act was passed it was expected that a very large application would be given to the powers under this Act. As a matter of fact, there has been, up to the present time, only one such school in Ireland. In fact, I believe it was an old gaol that was turned into a school for the purpose. I think there are five Unions which have joined together to form this school. What happens is this: The school is managed by a Joint Board representative of the contributory Unions. The Guardians of the Union in which the school happens to be situate have, of course, no difficulty in attending the meetings of the Joint Committee; but with the Guardians in the other Unions the case is different. They have to travel distances varying from twelve to twenty-five miles, and as a consequence there is great difficulty in getting men to attend with punctuality. I believe it is partly owing to this cause that more of these schools have not been established. The Local Government Board have been memorialised to allow the locomotion expenses of Guardians who have to travel these long distances, and it has been thought only right to include the Clerk to the Board also. I may say that I have had letters from two Roman Catholic Bishops in Ireland strongly advocating the establishment of a larger number of these 565 schools. This Bill, I have pointed out, will do something in that direction. There is a general consensus of opinion that if the children of persons in workhouses are removed into a separate school—

§ MR. SEXTON
Do the children live at the schools?

§ *MR. JACKSON
Yes, Sir. They are taken away from the workhouses altogether, and I believe there is a general consensus of opinion that for the children themselves this is a great benefit. It is to enable Guardians, who have to travel long distances, to discharge their duties as members of the Joint Committee, that the expenses I have referred to are allowed. There is a similar power to that conferred in the Bill already existing in this country. It will be a very small matter in Ireland, but I think it is important, inasmuch as it will, in my opinion, lead to the establishment of more of these combined schools.

§ COLONEL NOLAN (Galway, N.)
I think this Bill, although a small one, will prove to be useful. The fact is, some of the more efficient Guardians live several miles away from the place where the Joint Committee meet, and they have to incur considerable expense for travelling. It seems to me, therefore, that the proposal to allow them their travelling expenses is a step in the right direction, and I hope the Bill will be allowed to pass.