SUPPLY-REPORT. (Hansard, 29 July 1891)

§ (5.55.) MR. SEXTON
In Committee on this Vote I gave notice to the Chief Secretary that I would on this stage draw attention to the refusal of the Government to extend the number of certificates in the case of the Crumlen Street (Belfast) Industrial School for Roman Catholic girls. The school is one of the most efficient schools in Ireland. A few years ago, when the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the Isle of Thanet (Mr. J. Lowther) was Chief Secretary, the case of the Belfast Catholic School was brought to his notice, and he consented to increase the number of certificates for males from 110 to 150, and the only reason assigned then for not extending the number of certificates in the case of girls was that 691 there was not accommodation for a larger number of girls. The managers were obliged to maintain 20 or 30 children beyond the number authorised by the certificate. The school not only served Belfast, but the four counties of Antrim, Down, Derry, and Donegal. The managers made their application for an increase in the certificate three years ago, and I beg the right hon. Gentleman to reconsider his position. The managers have shown public spirit by purchasing an additional residence about five miles outside Belfast, and they ask for a certificate for their new establishment, or for a moderate increase in the number of certificates for the existing school in Crumlen Road. If the Government consider 50 is too large an increase, I ask them to make an increase from 110 to 130. I think the right hon. Gentleman will agree that, as one of the Members for Belfast, I am not going beyond the limits of reasonable demand on behalf of this deserving school.

§ (6.0.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR
I certainly do not think the hon. Gentleman has gone beyond his province in pressing the claims of this school on the favourable consideration of the Treasury, with whom the matter rests. But we must also take into account the state of the Industrial School Vote. In 1880–81 the amount granted for industrial and reformatory schools in Ireland was £72,000. It grew steadily, year by year, until when I came into office it had risen to £91,000, and since 1886 it has further risen to £99,000.

§ MR. SEXTON
Surely the right hon. Gentleman will not deny that as the cost of industrial schools rises so the cost of prisons goes down?

§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
The hon. Gentleman is requesting a further increase in the Vote, but there are several points to be taken into account in considering this subject. In the first place, the Treasury naturally object to dealing with the question in Ireland on a wholly different principle from that which is adopted in England and Scotland. The system, though nominally the same, is different in Ireland, and it is different to the advantage of the Irish industrial schools. This 692 enormous sum of money is spent on schools which may be described as denominational schools of the extremest type. The amount spent on Roman Catholic schools is £85,000 a year and upwards. There is no Conscience Clause and nothing to prevent the education from being denominational. In the circumstances, the Treasury will naturally refuse to allow the Vote to be augmented at a more rapid rate than it has increased hitherto; and I am bound to say that if I could induce the Treasury to give free scope to these philanthropic desires this House would have reason to complain.

§ MR. SEXTON
The Corporation of Dublin give £10,000 a year.

§ MR. A. J. BALFOUR
I believe the industrial schools are admirably managed in Ireland. A good case for the children can always be made out, and it is a disagreeable and an onerous task for the Chief Secretary of the day to have to refuse these applications, as he is too often obliged to do. I have every desire to aid the institution to which the hon. Gentleman has called the attention of the House, and the utility of which I fully recognise; but, under the circumstances, I do not think I could induce the Treasury to sanction additional expenditure.