HC Deb 12 February 1891 vol 350 cc572-4

(11.55.) Order to go into Committee on the Civil Service Estimates read.

(11.55.) MR. SHAW LEFEVRE (Bradford, Central)

May I ask when it is proposed to take Supply? The whole of the Estimates are not yet before the House. Supply appears on the Paper to-day for the first time as the fifth Order. To assign it such a place on the first occasion of its appearance is most unusual. The usual practice is to put it down as the first Order, so that when the Estimates are first submitted hon. Members may have the opportunity of raising questions on going into Committee.


If Supply had not been put down on the Paper the Government would have been blamed if the House should have found at about 10 o'clock that the other Government Business was exhausted. It is therefore necessary to put it down. The Government propose to take Supply tomorrow. It would be highly inconvenient to wait until the whole of the Estimates are prepared before taking Supply.

(11.56.) MR. H. H. FOWLER (Wolverhampton, E.)

Are the Supplementary Estimates to be taken before the Estimates for the present year? I shall be astonished to hear that Estimates have ever before been presented in the fragmentary way in which they have appeared this year. We know that there is to be a Supplementary Estimate relating to the relief works in Ireland. Do the Government propose to go into Committee of Supply on the ordinary Civil Service Estimates for next year before they bring forward the Supplementary Estimates to meet the financial exigencies of this year?

(11.57.) MR. JACKSON

The Government will be fallowing the usual practice in going on with the Estimates for next year even before proposing the Supplementary Estimates for this year. It is very desirable to present reliable Estimates. The Government, therefore, have thought it right to postpone the Estimate of the expenditure for the relief of distress in Ireland, as they cannot yet tell accurately what the expenditure will be. It is impossible to say how much will be spent by March 31, as we have no certain data to go upon.


I wish to propose an Amendment to the Motion for going into Committee of Supply on the Civil Service Estimates, when that Motion is put for the first time. If Supply is taken to-morrow, I fear that I shall be prevented from moving my Amendment, as the Resolutions of which notice have been given will have priority. It has hitherto always been the custom to put down the Civil Service Estimates for the first time on a Monday or Thursday.

(11.59.) MR. H. H. FOWLER

As the Government do not seem disposed to answer me I put my question to you, Sir. The first question to-morrow will be that you do leave the Chair. I wish to know whether when the Resolutions of which notice has been given as Amendments to the Motion that "Mr. Speaker do leave the Chair" shall have been disposed of, the Speaker will again put the Motion before leaving the Chair?


In the circumstances, the right hon. Member for Bradford would not be precluded from moving a Resolution.


I beg to give notice that on going into Committee of Supply on the Civil Service Estimates I will call attention to the subject of glebe lands and move a Resolution.

(12.0.) MR. JACKSON

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that there is no desire on the part of the Government to prevent him from taking the course which he wishes to take. I will consult my colleagues as to the course will be taken to-morrow.

MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne)

May I ask whether Supplementary Estimates are to be presented in connection with any other matter than the relief of Irish distress?


I cannot speak positively on the point.

Supply deferred till to-morrow.