LONDON AND NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY COMPANY (RATES AND CHARGES) PROVISIONAL ORDER BILL. (Hansard, 1 August 1891)

(12.5.) MR. LLOYD-GEORGE&c.) (Carnarvon,
I object to these Amendments, on account of their interference with the industries upon the short lines of North Wales. Most of these lines are short branch railways for the conveyance of local traffic. The London and North Western Railway Company have bought them up for something like 30 per cent. of the amount of their stock, and they are altogether the cheapest railways on the London and North Western system. Some of them are exceptionally cheap. The land was obtained at a very low rate, and the stations erected are of a very shoddy description. Nevertheless, it is proposed by this Bill to impose the same terminal charges upon them as are imposed in the case of the great English lines, without giving to the traders in the district the advantages of the maximum rates which are given in England.

§ *THE PRESIDENT OF THE BOARD OF TRADE (Sir M. HICKS BEACH,) Bristol, W.
It must be borne in mind that there are higher maximum rates on the short English lines as well as in Wales.

§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGE
It must not be forgotten that the English lines, whether main or branch lines, have cost, an enormous sum of money to make, and therefore. I do not see why exceptional treatment should be provided in reference to maximum rates in that case without giving the same treatment to the Welsh traders, especially as the same rate of terminal charges is to be imposed. I could instance the case of one station which cost only £800 to construct; and if these terminal charges are fully enforced, the company would receive every year more than three times the entire cost of construction. The Chester and Holyhead Railway is practically a main line, and yet it is treated on exactly the same footing as a small branch railway of three or four miles. I ask the President of the Board of Trade to meet the traders, so as to place the branch lines to Carnarvon in the same condition in which they would have been had the Bill not been amended in the Lords. At the present moment the slate quarries get their coals from the Port of Carnarvon, whereas other traders are able to obtain coal much cheaper by the larger lines; and if the Bill is to remain in its present condition, the result will be that the London and North Western Railway will impose such a charge upon the coal brought to the Port of Carnal von and conveyed to the quarries that it will be much cheaper to have it in future supplied direct from the great collieries to the slate districts. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to reconsider the question. I cannot imagine that it is the policy of the London and North Western Railway Company to crush the traffic upon the small railways by enforcing such exceptionally high rates.

§ *SIR M. HICKS BEACH
I think that the hon. Member is a little unreasonable in his demand. He is quite mistaken in supposing that any injustice is done to the Welsh railways either by this or by any other rate in the Provisional Order, 1043 He will find it is the invariable practice to impose one rate for a main line and a higher rate for branch lines all over the Kingdom, for the obvious reason that the traffic is much larger upon the main lines. If the hon. Member will refer to Class B he will see that the Welsh Railway Companies have imposed upon them very low rates for the slate traffic, and the coal rates to which he objects are much lower than the rates the London and North Western are now empowered to levy. I may add that the matter was argued before the Joint Committee, and the counsel of the only trader who appeared expressed his readiness to be contented with worse terms than have now been given. I trust the hon. Member will not press his opposition.

§ MR. LLOYD-GEORGE
I beg to move the omission of the words "Carnarvon to Llanberis," in line 2. The old scale of charges was 2d. per mile, but such a scale is utterly inapplicable to the present circumstances of the locality. The line from Carnarvon to Llanberis is a very cheap line. There are no bridges and no tunnels upon it, and the land was obtained very cheaply. There is no reason, therefore, why it should be exceptionally treated as is now proposed. I think it is a line that ought to be placed in the same condition in regard to maximum rates as the great lines in the Kingdom, seeing that, although the stations upon it are extremely insignificant, the company will have the power of making full terminal charges.

Mold Junction to Coed Talon	1.25d. 3d.
Carnarvon to Llanberis
The Mold and Denbigh Junction Railway worked by the Company
Carnarvon Junction to Afonwen Junction
Nantlle Branch
Chester and Holyhead
Bangor and Bethesda