§ 1."That a sum, not exceeding £80,099, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1891, for such of the Salaries and Expenses of the Supreme Court of Judicature and of certain other Legal Departments in Ireland, as are not charged on the Consolidated Fund.
§ 2."That a sum, not exceeding £80,687, he granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of" payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1891, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Irish Land Commission.
§ 3."That a sum, not exceeding £66,117, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1891, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Commissioner of. Police, the Police Courts, and the Metropolitan Police Establishment of Dublin.
§ 4."That a sum, not exceeding £56,250, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the gum-necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1891, for the Expenses of Reformatory and Industrial Schools in Ireland.
§ 5."That a sum, not exceeding £4,540, be granted to Her Majesty, to complete the sum, necessary to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1891, for the Main- 179 tenance of Criminal Lunatics in the Dundrum Criminal Lunatic Asylum, Ireland."
§ Resolutions read a second time.
§ First Resolution agreed to.
§ Second Resolution postponed.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That this House doth agree with the Committee in the Third Resolution."
§ (11.51.) MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)
I have a few words to say on this Vote with reference to the treatment of Catholic policemen in the Dublin Metropolitan Police. I was able last year to speak in high terms of the Dublin Force. They are a most respectable body of men, who do their duty very fairly and satisfactorily, and in great contrast to the Royal Irish Constabulary. One reason for this is that the officers are all men drawn from the ranks, whereas, as a general rule, the officers of the Royal Irish Constabulary are all men of a different type. A very strong feeling, however, exists among the men of the Force that discrimination against the Catholics is practised in the matter of promotion. I have a very large number of documents giving instances of this discrimination. I do not intend at this hour to trouble the House with a long complaint on the subject, but I do wish the Catholic constables of Dublin to feel that we are not satisfied with the way they have been treated, and we wish Mr. Harrell to understand that a very strong feeling exists on the subject. I also wish him to understand that a very strong feeling exists among the men against proselytising ladies being allowed to go to the barracks and preach the doctrines of a Creed in which the majority of the Force do not believe. Some Catholic ladies are prevented from entering the barracks, and I am sure hon. Gentlemen from the North of Ireland would at once complain if ladies of Catholic religious orders were allowed into the barracks and Protestant officers were more or less brought into contact with them. Protestant ladies are, however, allowed in the barracks, and if they may not preach to them they can come and go 180 amongst the Catholic men. More than that, it is believed by the Catholic policemen that promotion goes according to the amount of attention they pay to these evangelising ladies. It is most offensive that anybody should have to depend for his promotion upon the amount of bible reading he does. Such a system was introduced into the Post Office by Sir William Blackwood. I have already brought it to the notice of the Chief Secretary that a police sergeant named Chase so arranged the men's duties that Catholic officers could not attend mass upon the days when such attendance is obligatory. I could give a number of instances, but I will not mention names, for the reason that Mr. Harrell would be bound to say whether what is asserted is true or not, and he would know who the men concerned were. I do, however, trust that Mr. Harrell and the officers under him will understand that there is a feeling amongst the Catholic officers that they are unduly depressed, while those of the opposite religion are promoted.
§ (11.58.) MR. DILLON
I do not intend to trespass long on the attention of the House; indeed, I only rise for the purpose of pointing out to the right hon. Gentleman that the difference in the tone of Irish Members when speaking of the Dublin Police as compared with the character of their remarks on the Irish Constabulary is very significant. I do not know anything of the complaints of my hon. and learned Friend, but I do desire to say a word in recognition of the highly satisfactory manner in which Mr. Harrell, the Chief Commissioner of the Dublin Police, discharges his duties. Mr. Harrell was at one time Resident Magistrate in East Mayo, and a more honourable and just man I never met. Frequently Mr. Harrell exposed himself to danger in his anxiety for the safety of the people in troubled times. So highly was he respected by the Nationalists of East Mayo that when he left they presented him with a memorial of their regard. The promotion of Mr. Harrell is, indeed, the only honest promotion I have ever known the Irish Executive make.
§ (12.0.) MR. E. HARRINGTON
It has been remarked, and made matter of 181 complaint in the Dublin Metropolitan Police, that with or without the knowledge of Mr. Harrell a distinction is made in the treatment of the Catholic and Protestant members of the Force. If the former are observed to be in conversation while on duty they are liable to be reported, but if those ladies who take an interest in the religious young men of the latter class engage in talk for an hour with them there is no report for neglect of duty on the part of the men. I hope the remarks which have been made by my hon. and learned Friend, in which I agree, may not be taken as in any way a wish to introduce a religious controversy in this matter. We are far too much mixed up in our religious views to desire any thing of the kind, and are only anxious that all the members of the Force should be treated fairly. I have every respect for sincerity of convictions, but the greatest contempt for any system that permits fraud—for fraud it is to say that because men have attended this or that chapel they shall be patronised, have stripes on the arm, and be promoted over the heads of those who have beaten them in competitive examinations. I know that grievances of this kind have been brought to the notice of Dublin Members, and without wishing to raise any question as between Catholics and Protestants, and finding no fault with the men, I appeal to the Chief Secretary to address his attention to the matter.
§ (12.5.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR
I am sure all who know Mr. Harrell will agree with the opinions expressed by the hon. Member for East Mayo (Mr. Dillon). As to the specific complaints that have been made, all I can say is that I entirely concur in the opinion expressed. That promotion and favour should in any way be based on religious opinions would be destructive of discipline in any Force, and neither Mr. Harrell or any responsible officer would for a moment countenance such a policy as has been indicated and rightly condemned by the hon. and learned Member for Longford. Mr. Harrell will probably see a report of this discussion, or I will call his attention to it. I feel sure that Mr. Harrell is actuated by the desire to carry out the policy which Members on either side of whatever creed would wish to prevail in this Civic Force.
§ Question put, and agreed to.
§ Subsequent Resolutions agreed to.
§ Postponed Resolution to be considered to-morrow.