HC Deb 13 August 1890 vol 348 cc920-2

As amended, considered.

A Clause (Certificate of population,)—(Mr. T. M. Healy,)—brought up, and read the first and second time.

(10.5.) MR. COURTNEY (Cornwall, Bodmin)

Is there not a little difficulty arising from the fact that there will be many areas in relation to which the census will not be taken, and as to the population of which there will be no evidence? Should there not be an Amendment of the words "any area?"

MR. T. M. HEALY

As a matter of technique, the right hon. Gentleman may be right, but in practice the difficulty will not arise. Obviously, there can be no certificate where there is nothing to base it upon.

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR, Manchester, E.)

I would suggest the addition of the words "if possible" after the word "bound."

Amendment proposed, after the word "bound" to insert the words "if possible."— (Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed, "That those words be there inserted."

MR. T. M. HEALY

If we subjected English Bills to such criticism, progress would not be rapid. May I observe that the absence of such a clause as this in the Census Act of 1881 cost the Dublin Corporation £10,000? The Corporation brought an action to recover for the supply of water to the Kingstown Corporation; but in the absence of any legal proof of the population in support of the claim for the 1d. rate under the Dublin Corporation Act, the Corporation were non suited. So the absence of such a provision as this cost the Dublin Corporation £10,000.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause, as amended, added.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

The question was raised as to the time at which enumerators should make their visits. The actual hours are not, I believe, inserted.

MR. SEXTON

Yes, they are in the Bill.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL

Between 10 and 4.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

Well, the point is this: Of course, on this matter we are bouud to consult the opinion of experts founded on experience. This I have done, and they represent two objections to the hours from 10 to 4, first, that this will include an interval of time during which the head of the household is usually absent; and, secondly, that it will necessitate an augmentation of the staff that must inevitably lead to delay and increased expense. I trust the House will agree to substitute the hours 8 to 7, which will effect the object desired, namely, that the visit of the enumerators shall be made in daylight.

Amendment proposed, in Clause 2, to leave out the word "ten" and insert the word "eight."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Question proposed, "That the word 'ten' stand part of the Clause."

MR. SEXTON

With the very adequate force available as numerators, I would suggest that every necessity of the case would be met by inserting the hours 9 to 6. For the inhabitants of towns 8 is an unreasonably early hour.

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

It is undesirable to impose a limit against the opinion of those whose experience we have to rely on; but rather than provoke controversy, let me suggest from 8.30 to 6.30.

MR. T. M. HEALY

If the Census Paper is left, the head of the family would get it on his return to tea.

MR. COURTNEY

As the enumerators will have to cover, in some instances, large areas, it would be well to leave sufficient time for the second visit if necessary.

MR. SEXTON

Will the right hon. Gentleman accept the hours 8.30 to 6?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

assented.

Question put, and negatived.

Question, "That the words 'half-past eight' be there inserted," put, and agreed to.

Amendment proposed, to omit "four" and insert "six."

Agreed to.

Amendment proposed, in Clause 3, page 2, line 14, at end, add— But the initial letters only of the Christian names and surnames of such inmates shall be stated in any such Return."—(Mr. A. J. Balfour.)

Agreed to.

MR. SEXTON

In relation to Returns of certain diseases and infirmities there are subsequent inquiries to be answered, and I would suggest that the enumerator should be provided with these additional papers, so that there may not be the necessity for an additional visit.

(10.27.) MR. A. J. BALFOUR

That is a matter to be provided for in the Instructions, and I think it can be done.

Bill read the third time, and passed.