HC Deb 30 April 1890 vol 343 cc1805-8

On the Motion for Adjournment,

SIR W. LAWSON (Cumberland, Cockermouth)

There are still a large number of Members on this side of the House who desire to take part in the Debate on the Irish Land Purchase Bill; and therefore I should like to know whether it is the intention of the Government, in view of this fact, to close the Debate to-morrow?

*MR. W. H. SMITH

A definite arrangement has been arrived at between both sides of the House that the Division should take place to-morrow evening; but with a view of giving hon. Gentlemen opposite a little more latitude, I have given notice to move the suspension of the 12 o'clock Rule. I trust, however, it will not be necessary for us to sit unduly late.

*MR. E. ROBERTSON (Dundee)

I do not know whether it has been represented to the First Lord of the Treasury or not; but there is a considerable body of opinion on this side of the House hostile to the progress of the Bill, which has not as yet found expression in any speech but that of the hon. Member for Northampton (Mr. Labouchere). I would suggest to the First Lord and the Government that they would lose very little if they gave us Friday as an additional day for the discussion of the Bill. If we cannot raise the question of principle on the Second Reading, I give notice that we shall raise it probably at greater length on every available opportunity in Committee.

*MR. H. H. FOWLER

As there has been some captious newspaper criticisms of the length to which this Debate has extended, I would like to recall to the right hon. Gentleman's recollection the actual time consumed on the last great Irish Land Bill, namely, that of 1881, when the Party opposite were out of office and the Liberal Party were in power. The Second Reading of the Irish Land Bill of my right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Lothian was moved on April 25, 1881. The Debate on the Second Reading lasted eight days, and the Division was not taken till May 19 The Committee stage began on May 26, and lasted 37 days. The Report stage occupied three days, and the Third Reading Debate lasted two days I make no prophesy as to the time which will be consumed on the Committee stage of the present Bill, which I may observe is much more complicated than the Bill of 1881. But, having regard to the fact that eight days were given to the discussion on the Second Reading of the Bill of 1881, it is not an unreasonable demand to make that the present Debate should not be limited to four days and a half.

SIR J. PEASE (Durham, Barnard Castle)

In confirmation of the statement of the hon. Member for Dundee, let me say there are several hon. Gentlemen on this side of the House who are opposed altogether to the principle of the Bill, and who have not yet been heard. I do not wish to urge a course that would be inconvenient to the House; but I think it would be convenient to Members if Friday were given up to the Debate.

*CAPTAIN VERNEY

I belong to the very small class of Members who do not wish to speak on the Bill, but who wish to hear what has to be said; and I know there is a great deal to be said that has not yet found the opportunity of expression. I hope an additional day will be given on the Second Reading.

*MR. W. H. SMITH

The hon. and gallant Gentleman has had many opportunities of hearing the Debate; but I have not observed that the hon. and gallant Gentleman always formed part of the limited audiences who occasionally were present during the discussions. I have myself been in the House very frequently when there were not more than 15 or 20 Members present for hours together, and I am not sure that the hon. and gallant Gentleman was one of them. I always desire, as far as possible, to meet the wishes of hon. Members on both sides; but an understanding was arrived at last week that the Division should be taken to-morrow, and on the basis that a four nights' Debate would be sufficient. If, now, on Wednesday evening the Government were to alter that arrangement great inconvenience would be caused to Members in all parts of the kingdom. When a great measure is before the House it is always customary to arrive at an understanding as to the period of the conclusion of the Debate. I hope that the hon. Gentlemen who have just spoken will find a further opportunity of expressing their sentiments; but they have already, by their short speeches this evening, shown their decided opposition to the Bill. That is a contribution to the consideration of the question that both the House and the country will-value. At all events, it will save them from the extreme disappointment of not having expressed their opinions. But there will be ample opportunities in the future for hon. Members to express their opposition to the Bill. It is true that the Land Bill of 1881 occupied a great deal of time, but that may be partly owing to the fact that it was perfectly novel legislation; whereas the present measure is based on the lines of measures which have gone before it.

MR. MARJORIBANKS

It is true an arrangement was arrived at, and I feel we are not entitled to expect an extension of the Debate. I, however, in the circumstances, make an ad misericordiam appeal to the Government for Friday afternoon. I do not think that would cause any inconvenience to hon. Members; and I would remind the First Lord of the Treasury that the speech of the right hon Gentleman, the Member for West Birmingham (Mr. Chamberlain) has given the Debate a new turn, introducing, as it has done, many new considerations.

MR. JESSE COLLINGS (Birmingham, Bordesley)

Friday afternoon has been already fixed for the Allotments Bill, and therefore I hope the First Lord of the Treasury will not yield to the appeals made to him.

DR. HUNTER (Aberdeen, N.)

I go one step further than the hon. Member for Berwickshire (Mr. Marjoribanks), and invite the Government to take the whole of Friday. Many hon. Members who are totally opposed to the principles of Land Purchase have not yet had an opportunity of expressing their views.

MR. FLYNN (Cork, N.)

A great many Irish Members who wish to take part in the discussion have not yet spoken. I therefore hope the Government will give way on this very important point.

House adjourned at five minutes before Six o'clock.