HC Deb 26 March 1889 vol 334 cc837-9
MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)

asked the Under Secretary of State for the Colonies whether the Secretary of State for the Colonies has received official information that Lo Bengula, the Chief of the Matabele, has granted to Mr. Charles Rudd a concession of the mineral rights throughout his dominions, and which contains a clause that no other concession in respect to mineral rights or other industrial undertakings can be granted without the consent of Mr. Rudd, and that, acting on this concession, Mr Alfred Haggard was turned out of the country by a force of Matabeles under the command of a European agent of Mr. Rudd; whether any request has been forwarded to the Secretary of State for the Colonies from Mr. Rudd or his agents, or from the Cape Government, requesting him to confirm or to express his approval of this concession; whether such confirmation or approval has been expressed; whether he is aware that it has been stated in the Cape newspapers that one of the conditions of the concession is that Mr. Rudd will maintain a gunboat on the Zambesi River; and, if so, what flag this vessel will carry, and against whom it is contemplated to use this armed ship; and, whether he is aware that the territory in regard to which this exclusive concession has been granted is as large as France and exceedingly wealthy in mining and other natural products?

*THE UNDER SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (Baron H. DE WORMS,) Liverpool, Toxteth

It has been officially reported that Lo Bengula has granted to Messrs. Rudd, Maguire and Thompson a concession which is of the nature indicated in the hon. Member's question, except that it does not include any "industrial undertakings" other than mining. The concession authorizes the holders of it "to take all necessary steps to exclude" from Matabeleland "all persons seeking land, metals, minerals, or wining rights therein," and under this authority Mr. Alfred Haggard and others are stated to have been turned back in November or December of last year by some Matabeles under Mr. Maguire, one of the concessionaires. The Cape Government has taken no action in relation to this concession. Mr. Rudd has "solicited the co-operation" of Her Majesty's Government in accomplishing the objects of the concession. Her Majesty's Government have expressed no approval of it, and have no power to confirm or disallow concessions in Matabeleland. The condition in the concession as to the armed steamer is that it, or in lieu of it £500, shall be delivered to Lo Bengula, who, presumably; desires it as a protection against foreign aggressions. There is no provision as to its maintenance; and its flag, if any, would apparently be Lo Bengula's. The territory is believed to be about three-fourths of the area of France, and is said to be rich in minerals; but little is definitely known.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Is the Colonial Office prepared to make any representation to Lo Bengula about these concessions?

*BARON H. DE WORMS

We have no power to make any representation.

MR. O. MORGAN (Battersea)

May I ask whether this territory is not supposed to be under British influence, and, if so, whether concessions can be made, not to British, but to German, subjects?

*BARON H. DE WORMS

It is under the sphere of British influence, but I am afraid that that is rather a vague term. We have no power to prevent the real rulers of the country from making a concession. We can only advise them not to do so.

MR. BRADLAUGH (Northampton)

Did not Lord Knutsford, in May last, declare very peremptorily that the Government would not permit any concession to be made without the previous consent of the High Commissioner?

*BARON H. DE WORMS

I do not think the hon. Gentleman is quite correct.

MR. LABOUCHERE

Has not Lo Bengula sent envoys to Her Majesty's Government, and have not the Government ample opportunities for making representations to those envoys?

MR. BRADLAUGH

Before the hon. Gentleman answers the question, allow me to ask him again whether Lord Knutsford, in the latter end of May last, did not use the very words as to this territory which I have attributed to him?

*BARON H. DE WORMS

I do not think the Government had any power to approve or disapprove.

MR. BRADLAUGH

But did not Lord Knutsford, writing of this very territory—not in reference to this concession, but before the concession was negotiated—say, in express terms, that the Government would allow no concession to be granted?

*BARON H. DE WORMS

The hon. Gentleman had better give notice of the question. We do not allow concessions to be granted in the territory between the Shashi and Macloutsi Rivers, which is in dispute between Lo Bengula and Khama.