§ Order for Second Reading read.
§ COMMANDER BETHELL (York, E. R., Holderness)I do not want to stop the progress of this Bill, for I believe there is a general wish that it should pass. The first thing that strikes me on reading the Bill through is the great distinction that is drawn between public bodies and private bodies, and I do not quite understand why there should be this distinction. Private bodies are equally open with public bodies to the evils of bribery and corruption, and, I should have thought, equally able to defend themselves. I am inclined to fear that their being fenced round with legislation will tend to the relaxation of vigilance and the decrease of integrity. Further, I submit with all deference that the general principle of legislation is directed against crime wherever it can be found, and not merely under particular circumstances. With one or two exceptions, perhaps, that is the general rule, which this Bill departs from. That principle has been violated in this Bill, and I do not think it ought to pass without some slight discussion. I say nothing of the penalties attached—I only now submit these two objections.
§ MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne)The hon. and gallant Member speaks of objection to the Bill, but I suppose he does not seriously mean that, because it would be destructive of the measure at once. I do not wish to oppose the Bill on the present occasion. I believe it is the first bantling of the noble Lord (Lord Randolph Churchill), and I have not the slightest wish to strangle it in its birth, and that the noble Lord should lose any advantage he may derive from the passing of the measure. But I would just like to mention two public bodies that the noble Lord has not taken into account, and which, perhaps, on subsequent consideration, 810 he may see his way to include. I refer to the Primrose League and Her Majesty's Government.
§ MR. BRUNNER (Cheshire Northwich)It would be well, I think, if the Bill were extended to private Corporations. A considerable amount of dishonesty arises out of the custom of giving tips to obtain business, and if we could declare it a crime to take a bribe in order to give orders, I believe it would have a beneficial, wholesome effect on the commercial habits of the country.
§ LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL (Paddington, S.)I fear that if the scope of the Bill were extended no progress would be made with any legislation on the subject. There is an essential difference between a private body and a public one. A private body has a direct interest in looking after its own servants, but in the case of a public body what is everybody's business is nobody's business, and thus public bodies become engaged in transactions which the members in their private capacity would not contemplate for a moment. At some time, perhaps, Parliament may take into consideration the mischievous practice of giving commissions and tips of all kinds; but it is too much to attempt now. The Bill is the direct offspring of the Commission to inquire into the Metropolitan Board. The Commission found that persons had been guilty of corrupt practices for which they could not be got hold of in any way. I may mention that I have received a large number of letters from Corporations and persons connected with public bodies approving the Bill, and these letters throw a lurid light upon the prevalence of practices which this Bill may do something to prevent in the future.
§ Bill read a second time, and committed for Monday next.