HC Deb 23 July 1889 vol 338 cc1106-8

Report from the Select Committee read.

THE SOLICITOE GENEEAL (Sir E. CLARKE,) Plymouth

Arising out of that Report, I beg to move— That the shorthand notes of the evidence given by Mr. R. Martin before the Friendly Societies' Committee with respect to the Yorkshire Provident Insurance Company and the books and papers produced by him, and also the letter addressed to Sir H. Maxwell by Mr. R. Martin, and certain books forwarded by him to the Clerk to the Committee, be placed in the hands of the Director of Public Prosecutions in order that criminal proceedings may be instituted against the persons responsible for the management of the Yorkshire Provident Insurance Company. Having regard to the nature of the recommendation made by the Committee, I think it is desirable to put that Motion before the House without making any observation on the subject.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That the shorthand notes of the evidence given by Mr. Richard Martin before the Friendly Societies' Committee, with respect to the Yorkshire Provident Insurance Company, and the books and papers produced by him, and also a letter addressed to Sir Herbert Maxwell by Mr. Richard Martin, and certain books forwarded by Mr. Richard Martin to the Clerk to the Committee, be placed in the hands of the Director of Public Prosecutions, in order that criminal proceedings may be instituted against the persons responsible for the management of the Yorkshire Provident Insurance Company."—(Mr. Solicitor General.)

MR. BEADLAUGH

I do not propose to make any remarks upon the Motion which has been submitted by the learned Solicitor General, especially as that Motion is, in fact, what I respectfully suggested to the House on the consideration of the original Report. There are, however, one or two brief observations I should like to make which arise out of the investigation of the Friendly Societies' Committee. I do not propose to deal with the case of Mr. Martin, because, as that case is to be the subject of a criminal investigation, I presume it would be improper to do so. But there were other persons associated with that gentleman in the Yorkshire Provident Insurance Company, and I wish to say that the question of industrial insurance affects something like 10,000,000 policies now existing, with an average small payment of 1½d. a week. I believe I have grounds for assuring the Government that in many hundreds of thousands of these cases there has been clear fraud committed, which it was impossible for the Friendly Societies Committee to investigate within the terms of their Reference. The Act of 1875, which was intended to protect the people, is inoperative, either from difficulties in the way of carrying it out, or from misunderstanding as to what it meant.

A LORD OF THE TREASURY (Sir H. MAXWELL,) Wigton

I do not want to enter further into this Debate; but, as Chairman of the Committee on Friendly Societies, I wish to guard myself against being considered to agree with all that has fallen from the hon. Member for Northampton. I cannot help saying that I think it would have been better, in the interest of the inquiry which has been conducted throughout the present Session, and part of last, if the hon. Member's remarks, reflecting, as they do, most seriously upon the Industrial Insurance Companies, had been withheld until the Committee had decided on their Report. I am far from agreeing with all that the hon. Member has said.

MR. BRADLAUGH

I hope I may be allowed to explain that I did not wish in any way to commit my fellow Members of the Committee to my views. But I will undertake, if the Government will appoint a Statutory Commission, to put them in the way of proving the allegations which I have made.

* THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. GOSCHEN, St. George's,) Hanover Square

The Government are fully alive to the great importance of the question which the hon. Member for Northampton has put before us. There is no topic more deserving of consideration than the question of security for the savings of the people, and it is a matter in which the Government has always taken deep interest. But the House ought to suspend its judgment with regard to any particular cases, and ought not hastily to accept the idea that these Industrial Insurance Companies are generally in an unsatisfactory condi- tion. I hope there will he no panic on this important point. I shall be glad to communicate with the hon. Member for Northampton, and the Government will give their best consideration to the question whether there is or is not a case for the steps which the hon. Member proposes. I can assure the House that if materials are placed before the Government from which they can form a judgment, there is nothing which would occupy them more seriously during the Recess than this question, which has such vast bearings on the savings of the people.

Question put, and agreed to.