HC Deb 28 February 1889 vol 333 cc578-81
MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant whether his attention has been called to the following language, reported as having been used by the hon. and gallant Member for North Armagh (Colonel Saunderson)— As to a Home Rule Parliament, nothing under Heaven will make us recognize the Parliament, or obey its laws, so long as we have right arms to strike with. The very moment there is a chance of a Home Rule Parliament, we should arm, we should drill, and in a fortnight we could put 50,000 men in the field under arms. I have the authority of leading men in the Army that they would never allow British soldiers to be used against the Irish Loyalists; and whether he intends to institute any prosecution against the hon. and gallant Member for the use of such language? Perhaps I may make to that Question an addendum intimately connected with it—namely, whether the attention of the right hon. Gentleman has been called to the fact that since the appearance of this speech in the Daily Express that journal, in its editorial comments, has expressed its entire assent with the remarks of the hon. and gallant Gentleman; and whether the right hon. Gentleman will proceed against the Daily Express, under Sub-section 4 of Section 2 of the Crimes Act, under which section the right hon. Gentleman has already proceeded against the editors of several Nationalist journals?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I have not read the article in the Daily Express, but I think the answer to the general Question on the Paper will probably apply to the addendum which the hon. Gentleman has just read to the House. I understand that the hon. and gallant Member for Armagh, in the speech to which reference is made in the Question, foreshadowed an act of war against a hypothetical Government. If that Government should ever emerge from the land of dreamland into actual existence it will be for it to determine what course should be taken with my hon. and gallant Friend.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR

Arising out of the answer of the right hon. Gentleman, as to the character of which I will make no observations, I beg to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether the words of the hon. and gallant Gentleman are not a direct incitement to civil war against a law that may be passed by the Imperial Parliament of this country, and whether the right hon. Gentleman has not prosecuted several Gentlemen for intimidating unknown persons—[Ministerial laughter]—I will call them hypothetical persons if that will please hon. Gentlemen opposite—and whether the right hon. Gentleman does not think that language like this, applied to a population which to a large extent is armed, owing to the neglect of the Government, does not directly tend to interfere with the administration of law and justice in Ireland?

MR. PICTON

I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he has noticed the words, "in a fortnight we could put 50,000 men in the field under arms," which implies that 50,000 men are already enrolled?

MR. H. GARDNER

May I point out to the right hon. Gentleman that the hon. and gallant Gentleman says in his threat, "If there is a chance of a Home Rule Parliament." I would ask him whether these words come under his answer?

MR. A. J. BALFOUR

I shall not be Chief Secretary if there is such a chance, and I do not believe there will be such a chance.

MR. SEXTON

I wish to ask the Secretary of State for War whether the doctrine of contingent disloyalty is permitted in the British Army?

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that the question is whether the Chief Secretary intends to institute a prosecution. An answer has been given that no prosecution is intended, and I do not think any further question arises.

MR. SEXTON

With your leave, Mr. Speaker, I desire to ask whether the Secretary for War has inquired of the hon. and gallant Member the names of the leading officers in the British Army who, as he publicly asserted, pledged themselves to him in a certain event that they would violate their oaths?

MR. E. STANHOPE

No, Sir; I have had no communication on the subject from my hon. and gallant Friend. My attention is now called to the matter for the first time by the Question on the Paper.

MR. SEXTON

By way of spurring the singularly languid curiosity of the right hon. Gentleman, I shall at the earliest opportunity move— That, in the judgment of this House, and in the interests of public order, it is requisite that the Member for North Armagh, himself a military officer, be called upon to disclose the names of those leading officers of the British Army who pledged themselves to him, on the occurrence of a certain event, that they would violate their oaths of fidelity and obedience to the Crown.