HC Deb 26 August 1889 vol 340 cc559-61

Considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Clauses agreed to.

New Clause, after Clause 5 (Rent-charge under preceding Section not to exceed improved value of Land.)—(Mr. Madden,)—brought up, and read the first time.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Clause be read a second time."

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL for IRELAND (Mr. MADDEN,) Dublin University

Some discussion arose on the last occasion in reference to the 5th clause, and it was pointed out to the Chancellor of the Exchequer that unless some security of this kind were introduced the clause would work unjustly. My right hon. Friend undertook that such a clause should be introduced, and I now beg to move it.

MR. SEXTON (Belfast, W.)

Does the right hon. Gentleman accept it as an assurance that the State will not suffer loss?

MR. MADDEN

Yes.

Question put, and agreed to.

Clause added to Bill.

First Schedule.

SIR G. CAMPBELL (Kirkcaldy)

I have put down an Amendment to omit the names of certain gentlemen, as to whom I should be glad to learn why they should be relieved from liability. This Bill proposes to lend money in Ireland at a lower rate than in England and at worse security. As far as I can make out, these particular gentlemen are not tenants, so I suppose there was at one time some sort of security from them as owners. I move the Amendment in order to obtain some explanation.

Amendment proposed, in page 5, to leave out the names, "Beatty, David; Brady, Thomas; Donovan, (Bartholomew; Pope, William."

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. GOSCHEN,) St. George's, Hanover Square

These gentlemen were tenants not owners, and under the old system these accounts might have been treated as assets for a long time; but we now propose to wipe them out of the accounts. Our doing so does not relieve these persons from liability—we simply wish to remove a false representation of the amount of assets in the accounts.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

First Schedule agreed to.

Second Schedule.

SIR JOHN SWINBURNE (Staffordshire, Lichfield)

I presume it is not competent for me to propose any Amendment having reference to loans to English landlords; but I do protest against reducing the rate of repayment for Irish landlords who have not reduced their rents, while English landlords who have greatly reduced their rents have to pay 6½ per cent for loans.

THE CHAIRMAN

I must point out to the hon. Gentleman that however applicable his observations may be to the Bill, they are not applicable to the schedule.

MR. SEXTON

I have again to call the attention of the Chancellor of the Exchequer to the case of the National School teachers in Ireland, and the high rate of interest they have to pay for loans in respect to their residences. On a previous occasion the right hon. Gentleman promised to give consideration to the question of relieving this much-deserving class, and I think now that we are benefiting the landlords, it is but right that we should give better treatment to these persons. I find the National Teachers' Residences Act, as included in this schedule, is one of those to which the Act will not apply, and that fact seems to give a negative to all hopes. To give the right hon. Gentleman an opportunity of explaining the decision he has arrived at in this matter I beg to move the omission of line 6.

Amendment proposed, in line 6, to leave out "National School Teachers' Residences (Ireland) Act, 1875."

MR. GOSCHEN

I hope the hon. Member will not insist upon moving this omission, but that he will accept my assurances which I now repeat. It is rather a large order to expect us to reduce these loans to a very great extent, but I can assure the hon. Gentleman that I will give particular attention to these claims that he urges.

MR. SEXTON

The matter is not a very large one. I am sorry to say there are only 600 residences, so that it is not a very large question. But if the right hon. Gentleman assures me that the question is not prejudiced by this inclusion in the schedule, I withdraw the Amendment.

Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Second Schedule agreed to.

Bill reported; as amended, considered; Bill read the third time and passed.