LOCAL GOVERNMENT (SCOTLAND) BILL. (No. 374.) (Hansard, 17 August 1889)

§ SIR G. CAMPBELL (Kirkcaldy)
I wish to say, in regard to these Amendments, that, although we have been handsomely treated by the House of Lords, the Amendments come so suddenly upon us that it is difficult to examine them, and I hope the Lord Advocate will tell us if there is any substantial alteration. Sometimes a snake lurks in the grass.

§ * MR. SPEAKER
I must remind the hon. Gentleman that the time for making any general remarks was when I put the Question, that these Amendments be now considered.

§ MR. CALDWELL (Glasgow, St. Rollox)
I wish to point out to the Lord Advocate the effect of this Amendment. As the Bill left this House, an appeal could be made by the ratepayers from a decision of the District Committee to the County Council. Of course we are all anxious that, when the Bill comes into effect, the appeals shall be as little as possible, and that they should not be upon trivial matters. The effect of the Lords' Amendment is to leave out "determination," and insert the word "proceeding," so that the ratepayers may appeal to the County Council against any proceeding whatever of the District Committee. The effect of this will be that the Committee may order a certain pavement to be put in repair, or some trivial thing of that kind, and the matter can be hung up, because the Secretary for Scotland declares that, as there is an appeal pending, the proceedings must be delayed. Of course it is too late now to make any alteration in the Lords' Amendment, and I have only risen to point out the effect of the alteration—namely, that it opens the door to appeals, and thereby lessens the power of the District Committees.

§ MR. CALDWELL
This Amendment makes provision for the powers of District Committees in counties which are not subdivided; in which case the representatives of the Parochial Board are to be deemed County Councillors for the purposes of the Act, with all the powers of County Councillors. Now I gather that, under this Bill, s women may be members of District Committees of the County Council. There is this disqualification, that no woman shall be elected a County Councillor; but there is a proviso that, in regard to the formation of District Committees, the Parochial Boards and certain burghs are to appoint representatives. There is no restriction whatever as to the character of these representatives and no disqualification in the case of women. The effect of the clause introduced by the Lords is that, where there is no subdivision of a county, the persons elected by the Parochial Boards shall be deemed to be County Councillors; and, therefore, the disqualification of women will come in; and the rights of the Parochial Boards in sending representatives to the District Committees will necessarily be curtailed, instead of having extended to them the full rights and privileges of County Councillors in the case of counties not subdivided. I think the better reading of the Amendment would be "that such persons shall be held to possess the power and privileges of County Councillors," because the disqualification does not apply to the original appointment; and the words "shall be deemed to be County Councillors" must be read in regard to the performance of the duties, without involving a restriction that 1592 women shall not be appointed. I have felt it incumbent upon me to call attention to this Amendment, but I do not propose to move that the House shall disagree with it.

§ SIR G. CAMPBELL
I strongly object to the Amendment, and I beg to move that this House do disagree with it. It seems to me to be exceedingly like a job. It will be remembered that the Compensation Clauses of this Bill were regarded in this House with very great suspicion. In my opinion they are far too liberal already; but, according to this Amendment, a new class of officers are to be entitled to compensation. These county road clerks and district road clerks either come under the general designation of officers entitled to compensation, or they do not. If they do, they are entitled under Clause 118 to compensation; but if not, I do not see why we should accept an Amendment which will give them the title.

§ * MR. SPEAKER
Does the hon. Gentleman object to this Amendment?

§ SIR G. CAMPBELL
Yes, Sir.

§ THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. J. P. B. ROBERTSON, Bute)
This is a mere drafting Amendment. There is no doubt of the fact that these officers are in substance "existing officers," and the Amendment has only been inserted to make the matter clear.

§ MR. CALDWELL
What the Lord Advocate has stated is quite true; but it is equally true that the object of this Amendment is to give these officers a right to compensation; whereas under the Act by which they were appointed they have no right to compensation. In the section which immediately precedes this, it is declared that certain officers, whose offices are likely to be abolished, shall not be entitled to compensation unless they are otherwise entitled to compensation, and this is an alteration which 1593 was slipped in from the other side of the House, and accepted by the Lord Advocate. We were taken by surprise, and allowed it to be accepted. I shall certainly support the Motion of my hon. Friend to disagree with this Amendment.