BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE. (Hansard, 30 November 1888)

§ MR. JOHN MORLEY (Newcastle-upon-Tyne)
I beg to ask the First Lord of Treasury, Whether he proposes taking a Sitting of the House tomorrow?

§ THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)
Yes, Sir. I have already stated that it would be necessary to ask the House to sit to-morrow to consider Supply.

§ MR. JOHN MORLEY
I would then ask, first of all, how long the right hon. Gentleman proposes the Sitting should be; and, secondly, whether, in view of that proposal, he intends to make the motion that stands in his name for to-night?

§ MR. W. H. SMITH
The right hon. Gentleman seems to suggest that I am wishing to force the House to undertake more work than it cares to do. I believe that the House would wish to make progress in Public Business at a period when progress is most desirable in the interests both of the country and of hon. Members themselves. I do propose to make that Motion in order to make reasonable progress in Business; but I shall not ask the House to sit to any very late hour. I propose that the House should sit from 12 o'clock to 6 to-morrow, under the ordinary Wednesday Rules.

§ MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)
asked whether it was the intention of the First Lord of the Treasury to persevere with the Notice he had given to suspend the 12 o'clock Rule for the rest of the Session; or, whether he had definitely abandoned it?

§ MR. W. H. SMITH
I stated in the course of last evening that I hope we might arrive at an understanding which would be satisfactory to both Parties. Until I see whether that understanding may be arrived at, I do no propose to put that Motion on the Paper again.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)
said, he wished to ask a question as to whether the right hon. Gentleman had been correctly reported in the debate on the 24th of February, of the present year, when the Standing Order, Sittings of the House, was under discussion. It would be necessary for a proper understanding of the matter to read what fell from the hon. and gallant Member for the North Western Division of Sussex (Sir Walter B. Barttelot) on that occasion. The hon. and gallant Gentleman said that— There were many Ministers of the Crown who would not trench on the time of the House by asking for this kind of indulgence. If, how-over, the power wore exercised very often it would become an absolute abuse, and they would be in precisely the same position as before the Rule was passed. A great debate might last for three or four nights, and upon each night it might be asked that the debate should be continued beyond 12 o'clock. If it were only on some extraordinary occasion that it was intended this Motion should be made, he saw no objection to the words remaining in the Rule."—(3 Hansard [322], 1455–6.) In reply to these observations of the hon. and Gallant Member the right hon. Gentleman was reported to have said that he had no hesitation whatever in giving his hon. and gallant Friend the assurance he required. He wanted to know whether the Motion the right hon. Gentleman proposed to make—["Order!"]—

§ MR. SPEAKER
The hon. Gentleman is now debating the question. The hon. Member referred to me before the Business commenced whether he might ask the question which, as I understood, was for the purpose of elucidating some answer given by the hight hon. Gentleman with regard to Report of Supply, and to that extent I told him he would be in Order. But he would not be in Order in raising a debate as to what the 613 right hon. Gentleman had said about the Rule at the proceedings in Committee of Supply, if under discussion at 12 o'clock.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE
My object is to ascertain whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to adhere to the engagement he gave on the 24th of February.

§ MR. SPEAKER
That is a very debatable matter. I thought the hon. Member desired to ask a question.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE
Yes; this is it—Whether the right hon. Gentleman is correctly reported?

§ MR. SPEAKER
If the hon. Member will put that question I have no doubt it will be answered.

§ LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL (Paddington, S.)
I wish to ask you, Mr. Speaker, whether it is not a Rule of the House that no reference shall be made to debates in the actual Session?

§ MR. SPEAKER
The noble Lord has rightly interpreted the Rule; and the only licence I gave to the hon. Gentleman was to ask the right hon. Gentleman as to the interpretation he put on the Rule.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE
I want to know whether the right hon. Gentleman said it or not, and I will leave the House to form its own conclusion. He can hardly suppose—["Order!"]—well, I can hardly tell how to get it out.

§ MR. SPEAKER
The question is as to the construction of the Rule, and is not a question of debate.

§ MR. LABOUCHERE
Then I will ask the right hon. Gentleman, before he puts his Motion, to be good enough to look at Hansard, and tell the House whether his practice of moving the suspension of the 12 o'clock Rule from day to day is in accordance with the pledges he gave the House?

§ MR. W. H. SMITH
The hon Gentleman has not exhibited his usual courtesy in not drawing my attention to the subject before bringing it before the House, though he is well acquainted with the usages of Parliament and usually observes them. I, Sir, am under the conviction that I am acting strictly and entirely within the spirit of the Order and within the spirit of the engagements which I have given to the House, and that the occasion is one which fully justifies the Motion.

§ DR. FARQUHARSON (Aberdeenshire, W.)
asked whether the right hon. Gentleman proposed to take any Scotch or Irish Votes in Class VI. to-morrow; and whether he could not undertake some better system of arranging the Votes, as the present method was very inconvenient to many Members?

§ MR. W. H. SMITH
said, he stated some days ago that Class VI. would be taken first, and after that the remaining Votes of Class IV. and V. He could assure the hon. Gentleman that any Minister would be anxious to make such arrangements as to the order in which the Votes should be taken as would be satisfactory to the Members of the House.

§ MR. BUCHANAN (Edinburgh, W.)
asked, whether any Supplementary Votes would be taken?

§ MR. W. H. SMITH
said, that the Supplementary Estimates belonging to the Class would be taken.