HC Deb 29 November 1888 vol 331 cc520-2
MR. DILLON (Mayo, E.)

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, From what source it is proposed to defray the cost of sending British troops to Suakin?

THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

So far as the Government are aware, the cost of the moving of the troops from Cairo to Suakin will be extremely small. The Egyptian Government finds the transport, and I am not really aware that any other expense will be incurred.

MR. DILLON

It is widely rumoured that this operation will lead to a very great expenditure. Am I to understand from the answer of the right hon. Gentleman that the Government have not yet decided who is to bear the contingent expenses which may result?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I wish to be perfectly frank with the hon. Gentleman and the House. He appears to think there is something in reserve, and something mysterious which is kept back. There is nothing of the kind. A battalion—a few troops—are being moved from Cairo to Suakin, and will be moved back again from Suakin to Cairo. No serious or important movement on the part of Her Majesty's Government is contemplated.

MR. DILLON

The right hon. Gentleman has not answered my question. The troops may be moved from Cairo to Suakin and back again; but what if they are beaten and defeated? Will the right hon. Gentleman answer the plain question, who is to bear the cost of this expedition; whether it be a small expedition; or whether, as stated in The Times, it is to be practically a re-conquest of the Soudan?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I have stated to the House what the expedition is. It is to move a few troops who are in garrison in Egypt from Cairo to Suakin, and as soon as the operations there are completed to move them back again. [Cries of "What operations?"] The operations are confined exclusively to the defence of Suakin from the attacks to which it is now subject.

An hon. MEMBER

Who pays the piper?

MR. JOHN MORLEY (Newcastle-upon-Tyne)

Two or three days ago, in answer to a Question of mine, I understood the right hon. Gentleman to say that to-day he would make a statement. [Mr. W. H. SMITH: NO.] I asked him whether he would lay Papers on the Table before we had a discussion? He then said he would make a statement; and that statement has now reduced itself to the very simple proposition apparently that the troops are to go from Cairo to Suakin, and then from Suakin to Cairo. Is that the statement which he promised to make?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I am not aware that I did promise to make a statement. The right hon. Gentleman asked me if there would be any objection to produce Papers, and I said there would be no objection if there were any Papers. Certainly, there will be no objection to give the House full information if it is desired as to the removal of the battalion from Cairo to Suakin and from Suakin to Cairo. That is the whole matter.

MR. JOHN MORLEY

The Papers which I think the House and the country will be anxious to have are the Papers relating to those communications which passed between the British and Egyptian Governments, of which the right hon. Gentleman has informed us.

MR. W. H. SMITH

If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to have them, and will ask the Question on Monday, I will tell him whether I can produce them.

MR. DILLON

I wish to ask whether, in view of the statement the right hon. Gentleman has now made, which conflicts with general rumour abroad, he can definitely state on Monday whether the Government will give an undertaking that the troops will not go beyond a certain radius outside the walls of Suakin?

MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)

May I ask whether the cost of this operation or movement is to be included in the specific sum per annum which Egypt pays for the English troops that are in Egypt, or whether it is to be an extra?

MR. W. H. SMITH

If the hon. Gentleman wishes me to be exactly precise, and will ask me on Monday, I will give him the precise information; but whether it will cost a few pounds more or less I am not able to say. I have told the House that Egypt bears the whole cost of transport to and fro, and I really do not know what other expense there can be.

MR. BUCHANAN (Edinburgh, W.)

I beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether it is intended to reinforce the Army of Occupation in Egypt in consequence of the dispatch of British troops to Suakin.

MR. W. H. SMITH

No, Sir. It is not in the opinion of the responsible officers in Egypt necessary to reinforce the Army of Occupation there.