HC Deb 12 March 1888 vol 323 cc875-8
LORD ERNEST HAMILTON (Tyrone, N.)

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether he is aware that in the neighbourhood of Castlederg, County Tyrone, a great number of leaseholders are waiting to have their rents adjusted; and, whether he can give any information as to when a Land Court is likely to sit in that neighbourhood?

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY (Colonel KING-HARMAN) (Kent, Isle of Thanet)

(who replied) said: The Land Commissioners inform me there are 202 tenants in the Castle- derg Union waiting to have their applications heard, of which probably one-third, are leaseholders. A Sub-Commission will commence its sitting for County Tyrone on May 1. In answering the Question of the hon. Member for South Tyrone (Mr. T. W. Russell), as to the number of Sub-Commissions, I might have added that each Sub-Commission now comprises five members instead of three, as formerly.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)

I would like to ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, whether it is not a fact that there is in the Estimates for this year a reduction in the amount for the Land Commission of £54,000 compared with last year, and that the number of Sub-Commissioners estimated for is 20 less than last year; while, at the same time, there is an extraordinary increase in the number of applications by tenants to have their rents fixed?

MR. T. W. RUSSELL (Tyrone, S.)

Might I ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman whether no Sub-Commission will commence to sit in Tyrone till the 1st of May?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

That is the date furnished to me by the Land Commissioners.

MR. T. W. RUSSELL

Might I ask the Chief Secretary, whether he will give his personal attention to the position the tenants are placed in by the delay in hearing their applications?

MR. T. M. HEALY

I beg to ask the Secretary to the Treasury—for this is a most important question—whether in the Estimates for the coming year there is a reduction of £54,000, as compared with last year, in the amount for the Irish Land Commission; and whether there is provision made for the salaries of 20 Sub-Commissioners less than last year; and, whether that has been done by the Treasury in view of the fact that 113,000 leaseholders have entered applications to have their rents fixed?

THE SECRETARY TO THE TREASURY (Mr. JACKSON) (Leeds, N.)

The answer to that Question is a very simple one. The Land Commission terminates, as hon. Members are aware, by law in August next, and we made provision only up to the date when the Commission would terminate. If the Commission is extended further than that time, of course provision will have to be made for the amount required.

MR. T. M. HEALY

How does that account for the reduced number of Sub-Commissioners estimated for between this and August next?

MR. JACKSON

I do not quite catch the Question.

MR. T. M. HEALY

I wish to ask, whether the fact that the Land Commission, is by law terminated in August next necessitates a reduction in the number of Sub-Commissioners between this and August next?

MR. JACKSON

I am not aware that there is any reduction in the number of Sub-Commissioners.

MR. T. M. HEALY

There are 20 less than last year.

MR. JACKSON

Twenty less than the estimated number, though there has been no reduction in the number of Sub-Commissioners are far as I am aware.

MR. CHILDERS (Edinburgh, S.)

Might I ask, whether or not it is the intention of the Irish Government to continue the Land Commission beyond the date at which it now by law concludes; also, whether that decision was not arrived at before the Estimates were framed; and. if so, whether the Estimates ought not to have been framed upon that decision?

THE CHIEF SECRETARY FOR IRELAND (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR) (Manchester, E.)

I am not intimately acquainted with the practice of the Treasury in this matter; but I believe that it is not usual to put on the Estimates sums which require Parliamentary sanction before they could be voted. The Land Commission naturally expires on the 1st of August. Of course, before that date the Government will come down to Parliament and ask their views as to how the Land Commission should be dealt with in the future. But until Parliament has given its sanction to the proposals of the Government, or some other proposals, it would be improper to put on the Estimates the additional sums required.

MR. CHILDERS

But when the Poor Law Commission had to be extended from year to year it was always the custom to ask in the Estimates for the full amount that was intended to be expended. There is a sound objection, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, to Supplementary Estimates, and I should like to have the view of the First Lord of the Treasury upon that point.

THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

It will be within the recollection of the right hon. Gentleman, I think, that the Charity Commission was continued from year to year. The Charity Commission was only provided for under Statute up to the period for which it was authorized by Statute; and for many years it was necessary for successive Governments to present Supplementary Estimates for the Charity Commission.

MR. T. M. HEALY

asked whether the right hon. Gentleman had not, in 1881, proposed a Motion to abolish the Land Commission, and to issue an irresponsible Commission to take its place; and, whether it was intended by the Government now to carry that into effect?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I am sure the hon. and learned Gentleman will see that that is a Question which ought not to be asked. I could not answer it seriously without due Notice.