HC Deb 25 June 1888 vol 327 cc1249-51

WAYS AND MEANS—considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March 1889, the sum of £2,366,100, be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom."—(Mr. Jackson.)

MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)

said, it was somewhat remarkable that at such an hour the Government should attempt to press Business of that nature without any kind of explanation. Still, perhaps there would be no objection to the Vote being taken, if it was known what the Government proposed to do with the other Business down on the Paper, in the short time that still remained.


said, he only asked the Committee to take the Resolution in regard to two Votes for the Army and Navy which were taken the other night, and as to which there was general consent, that there should be no opposition. He deferred those Votes upon which it was agreed opportunity should be given for discussion. The money was urgently required, and he hoped no objection would be now raised.

DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid)

said, he must move to report Progress, as a protest against what was growing to be a systematic practice of taking important Business at such an hour.

Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the Chairman do report Progress, and ask leave to sit again."—(Dr. Tanner.)

THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

said, he trusted the hon. Member would not insist on that Motion against what had always been regarded as purely formal Business, and which was in fulfilment of obligations already entered into by the House. No new Vote was asked for; this was merely following the formal procedure with which all Members of experience were familiar, and which required the confirmation in Ways and Means of a Vote agreed to in Committee. There really could be no reason or motive for opposition to a stage always agreed to as a matter of course.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)

asked, would not Members have been entitled to move Motions on the Question of the Speaker leaving the Chair?


replied in the negative.


said, as the right hon. Gentleman had given an explicit answer, and shown that he was merely conforming to the Rules of the House, his hon. Friend would do well not to press his Motion. It was agreed that one Vote for the Army and Navy should be taken, and no advantage was being taken by the Government; and his hon. Friend, with his usual generosity, would surely not persist. If he did, his Friends would be under the necessity of voting against him; and, after that, they might "expect the deluge."


said, he would not have attempted to oppose, were it not that the Government were ready on every possible occasion, no matter what the hour, to try and obtain Votes for large sums of money without any discussion. But there ought to be discussion; the country ought to know what the money was for. The other night, when another Vote came under discussion—

MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne)

said, he was sorry to interrupt his hon. Friend, but he begged to be allowed to claim to move, "That the Question be now put."


withheld his assent, and declined then to put that Question.


proceeded: If he quite understood that the right hon. Gentleman would not follow the bad precedent which had had its effect on the present occasion, of applying the Closure, and checking discussion when a Money Vote was asked for—if the right hon. Gentleman would amend his ways in the future, and appreciate these remarks, he (Dr. Tanner) would show himself amenable to reason, and withdraw the Motion. He did so, however, on the distinct understanding that the right hon. Gentleman would behave himself well in the future.

Motion, by leave, withdrawn.


felt he owed a word of apology to his hon. Friend for his` interruption, and recognized the impartiality of the Chairman.

Original Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That, towards making good the Supply granted to Her Majesty for the service of the year ending on the 31st day of March 1889, the sum of £2,366,400, be granted out of the Consolidated Fund of the United Kingdom.

Resolution to be reported To-morrow.

Committee to sit again upon Wednesday.