§ MR. J. CHAMBERLAIN (Birmingham, W.)Mr. Speaker, I regret to have to call your attention to a personal incident. At the moment when the other debate was adjourned, according to the Standing Order, the hon. Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool (Mr. T. P. O'Connor) made use of some expression of an offensive character, which he addressed to myself in the 883 House of Commons. He called me "Judas Chamberlain." The expression was subsequently repeated by the hon. Member for West Cavan (Mr. Biggar). I am very loth to take any notice of expressions of this kind, and I have often passed them over when they came from those Benches. But on the present occasion the insult was so marked that it appears to me that it is my duty to call your attention to the matter.
§ MR. PARNELL (Cork)Sir, I rise to a point of Order. I wish to say that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham has complained of an expression which he alleges was used towards himself by the hon. Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool, but which expression was not heard by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham. I can prove that the expression, or the alleged expression, was not heard by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham, and that he repeated it.
§ MR. PARNELLIf the right hon. Gentleman will be good enough to listen to my point, my point of Order is that a complaint with reference to an opprobrious expression alleged to have been used by an hon. Member of this House, whether at the time you were in the Chair or not—as a matter of fact, I believe nobody was in the Chair—should be brought to your notice by a Member of this House who has heard the expression. I want to know, is it competent for the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham, or anybody else, to bring before you a complaint upon hearsay, which he does not know of his own knowledge?
§ MR. SPEAKERIf an expression is used so that other Members of the House say that they heard it, my only course is to call upon the hon. Gentleman the Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool to say whether he did use the expression complained of.
§ MR. PARNELLMy point of Order is that the complaint should be made to you, Sir, by some Member who heard the expression.
§ MR. JOHNSTON (Belfast, S.)Mr. Speaker, I beg to say that I heard the expression.
§ MR. SPEAKERThe person most interested in this matter is the hon. Member against whom the opprobrious expression has been used, and if he brings a complaint before me while I am in the Chair it is my duty to take notice of it. I, therefore, ask the hon. Gentleman the Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool whether he did use the expression?
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (Liverpool, Scotland)Yes, Sir; I used the expression.
§ THE LORD MAYOR OF DUBLIN (Mr. SEXTON) (Belfast, W.)On a question of Order, Sir, I wish to ask whether there is any provision for a report being made to you on what is alleged to have occurred otherwise than by the Chairman of Committees?
§ MR. SPEAKERThat is immaterial. This was used during the transitional period between the Chairman leaving the Chair and my taking it. It is clearly just as improper that an expression of that kind should be used at that period as when I am in the Chair. The hon. Member for West Cavan has said that he used the expression.
§ MR. PARNELLThe hon. Member for West Cavan did not use the expression.
§ MR. JOHNSTONI heard the hon. Member for West Cavan.
§ MR. J. E. REDMOND (Wexford, N.)The right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham will corroborate what I am now going to say. The right hon. Gentleman seemed not to have heard the expression used by my hon. Friend the Member for the Scotland Division of Liverpool, and he turned round to these Benches and asked—"What did he say?" and then, in answer to that question, the hon. Member for West Cavan, as I understood, said to the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham—"He said so-and-so." I venture to submit that the expression did not emanate from the hon. Member for West Cavan at all; it was in answer to a question from the right hon. Gentleman the Member for West Birmingham.
THE MARQUESS OF HARTINGTON (Lancashire, Rossendale)I entirely corroborate what has just fallen from the hon. Member for North Wexford. My right hon. Friend and myself heard his name mentioned in a very loud tone 885 below the Gangway; but neither of us heard the expression with which it was accompanied. It was also accompanied by laughter. My right hon. Friend asked what it was, upon which the hon. Member for West Cavan said—"He called you Judas Chamberlain."
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORMr. Speaker, I do not wish to be a party to, nor do I think I should be justified, in prolonging this discussion; and, whatever may be my feelings on the subject, I admit I should not have used the expression in this House, and I now wish to withdraw it.
§ MR. SPEAKERI understand the hon. Gentleman expresses regret for having used the expression? I hope, therefore, the House will permit the matter to go no further.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORYes; you have rightly interpreted my language, Mr. Speaker.