HC Deb 24 July 1888 vol 329 cc428-30

MATTER—considered in Committee.

(In the Committee.)

Motion made, and Question proposed, That, after 1894, all dividends received by the Treasury in respect of Suez Canal Shares, after deduction of the sum required for paying off the bonds issued for the purchase of such shares, be applied in paying the principal of the amount borrowed."—(Mr. William Henry Smith.)

MR. CHILDERS (Edinburgh, S.)

said, the hour was late for proceeding with this important Resolution (20 minutes to 12), and allowed no opportunity for discussion. He should have liked to have had some explanation from the right hon. Gentleman.

THE FIRST LORD of THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

said, he would remind his right hon. Friend that this was purely a preliminary and formal stage, and it was necessary that the Resolution should be passed in order to found a Bill upon it. He would undertake that when the Bill itself came before the House, ample opportunity should be given for the discussion of all its details.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR (Donegal, E.)

said, it was desirable the House should have some information as to how the matter stood. Was there any debt to the Khedive upon the shares?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. GOSCHEN) (St. George's, Hanover Square)

said, there was not.

MR. CAUSTON (Southwark, W.)

said, he was surprised that the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Edinburgh had not pressed for further information, but remained satisfied with the reply given him. He would advise his right hon. Friend, if he really wanted a discussion, to be careful as to how the arrangement was come to. It was possible that what had occurred in reference to the Van and Wheel Tax would be repeated in reference to this subject. An early discussion on the proposed Van and Wheel Tax had been promised under similar circumstances, and yet months had been allowed to elapse and no discussion had taken place.

MR. GOSCHEN

said, he heard the observation of the hon. Member with surprise. The hon. Member was, he understood, opposed to the Van and Wheel Tax, and it was somewhat remarkable that he should be anxious that the proposal should be brought forward. In reply to the hon. Member for East Donegal (Mr. Arthur O'Connor) there was no debt due to the Khedive. For a certain number of years the Suez Canal Shares were without interest, but after 1894 the interest would be accruing, and the British Exchequer would have the shares with their dividends clear of any liability whatever. The anticipated revenue from the shares was £550,000. This would go to pay the capital of the money borrowed to buy the shares, and from the surplus the interest and Sinking Fund of the new loan for the defence of the Empire would be defrayed.

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

asked, was not this proposal discounting the prospective income to be derived six years hence?

MR. GOSCHEN

said, the proposal was in effect as the hon. Member stated. He was quite prepared to justify the policy of the proposal.

MR. CHILDERS

said, as be had received a definite promise that the House should have a full opportunity of going into the whole subject on a later occasion, he agreed that it was not expedient to attempt to raise a discussion now.

Question put.

The House proceeded to a Division, and the Chairman stated that he thought the "Ayes" had it; but his decision was challenged, and it appearing to the Chairman that the Division was vexatiously claimed, he directed the "Noes" to stand up in their places, and, one Member having stood up, the Chairman declared that the "Ayes" had it. Resolved, That, after 1894, all dividends received by the Treasury in respect of Suez Canal Shares, after deduction of the sum required for paying off the bonds issued for the purchase of such shares, be applied in paying the principal of the amount borrowed.

Motion made, and Question proposed, That it is expedient to authorise the Treasury to raise such sum authorised to be issued out of the Consolidated Fund by means of Treasury Bills or Exchequer Bonds, the principal and interest of which shall be chargeable on the Consolidated Fund."—(Mr. William Henry Smith.)

MR. ARTHUR O'CONNOR

said, he wished to ask the right hon. Gentleman to state what proportion of the required amount it was proposed to raise by Treasury Bills, and what amount by Exchequer Bonds?

MR. GOSCHEN

said, surely the hon. Member would admit this was a matter upon which the Treasury must be allowed discretion according to circumstances and financial expediency.

Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That it is expedient to authorise the Treasury to raise such sum authorised to be issued out of the Consolidated Fund by means of Treasury Bills or Exchequer Bonds, the principal and interest of which shall be chargeable on the Consolidated Fund. Resolved, That it is expedient to make provisions for carrying into effect the above objects.—(Mr. William Henry Smith.)

Resolutions to be reported To-morrow.