HC Deb 16 July 1888 vol 328 cc1408-11
MR. SUMMERS (Huddersfield)

asked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether the Government has held any communication with the leading counsel for The Times, in the case of "O'Donnell v. Walter and another," with respect to the charges recently brought in that journal against certain Members of this House; and, if so, whether he is prepared to state to the House the nature of the communications that have taken place?

THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

The hon. Member must be aware that it is absolutely without precedent to make any statement as to private communication between Members of the Government. But, if the object of the hon. Gentleman is intended to suggest that the Government have received from the Attorney General any communication whatever respecting matters which have come to his knowledge as counsel for the defendants in the case of "O'Donnell v. Walter," I have to state most distinctly that there is not the slightest foundation whatever for such a suggestion.

MR. T. P. O'CONNOR (Liverpool, Scotland)

Mr. Speaker, I complain that the right hon. Gentleman has misapprehended the point of the Question put to him. He was not asked whether any communication had been made to the Government by the Attorney General in regard to the case of The Times. The Question was, whether the Government had made any communication to the Attorney General for the purpose of assisting him in his duties as counsel for The Times?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I have answered that Question already.

THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir RICHARD WEBSTER) (Isle of Wight)

Mr. Speaker, I beg to be allowed to answer this Question. I answered a similar Question in this House a short time ago. I desire to say that I have received not the slightest communication from the Government of any sort or kind, direct or indirect, in order to assist me in the performance of my duties as counsel for the defendants.

THE LORD MAYOR OF DUBLIN (Mr. SEXTON) (Belfast, W.)

Will the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord state whether the Attorney General has been consulted in drawing up the terms of the Motion now on the Paper?

MR. W. H. SMITH

I say distinctly, No!

MR. SEXTON

Will the right hon. Gentleman say if it is intended to consult the learned Gentleman, the leading counsel for The Times, in drawing up the Bill?

MR. W. H. SMITH

The hon. Gentleman may be informed at once that the Bill has been already drawn, and there is no necessity—

Several Irish MEMBERS

Has he been consulted?

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order!

MR. W. H. SMITH

But I say again distinctly that I decline to answer any Question as to communications that may have passed between Members of the Government in the discharge of their duties. No such Question can be answered by any Minister.

MR. PARNELL (Cork City)

Mr. Speaker, I wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, in view of the fact that the Government have full power over the order of Business for to-day, both as regards Orders of the Day and Notices of Motion, and that the Notice of Motion with respect to the Members of Parliament (Charges and Allegations) Bill is placed by the Government after 31 Orders of the Day and after four Notices of Motion, whether we are to understand that its place on the Notice Paper is a measure of the importance with which the Government views the Bill in question? And I wish also to ask whether the right hon. Gentleman intends to bring in the Bill to-night for the first reading; and, if he intends to bring it in to-night, whether he will have it printed and distributed by to-morrow; whether he will propose an early day for its second reading; and, when it comes on, will he make it the first Order on the Notice Paper?

MR. W. H. SMITH

The hon. Gentleman asks me whether I attach to this Order the relative importance which belongs to the position in which it stands on the Order Book. Sir, the Bill of which I have given Notice is a Bill to be introduced in accordance with the offer that I made to the hon. Gentleman and those who are associated with him. It is for him to say whether he will accept the proposal of the Government. I do not desire to debate that proposal; and I have put it in this position on the Order Book in order that it may be rejected or accepted by the hon. Member in the form in which it stands. If the Motion is received and accepted by the House, the Bill will be immediately printed and circulated, and I will then name a day for the second reading. But I may say frankly that I do not anticipate being able to make provision for a debate on the second reading of a measure of this kind. It was an offer made by the Government to the hon. Gentleman and his Friends, to be either accepted or rejected. It is reasonable that some discussion should take place on the second reading, if hon. Members desire that discussion; but I am not able—and I am not desirous—to occupy the time of the House at length in the consideration of this measure.

MR. PARNELL

I beg, Sir, to ask leave to move the adjournment of the House on a definite question of urgent public importance—namely, the statement that we have just heard from the right hon. Gentleman, and the position which he has assigned to this most important Motion.

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! I am sorry to interrupt the hon. Member; but that would be a violation of the Rules of the House. It would be anticipating the discussion of a Bill standing on the Notice Paper.

MR. PARNELL

I submit that my Motion has reference to the position in which this Notice has been placed on the Paper, and not to the merits of the question or the merits of the Bill itself. I simply desire that the House, whom I consider to be the judge in this matter, as representing the English nation and the Irish nation—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! I have given it as my ruling, and the hon. Gentleman will be quite out of Order—

MR. PARNELL

In moving the adjournment? With regard to the conduct of the Government—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Gentleman would be quite out of Order in moving the adjournment of the House, anticipating a discussion on a question already on the Paper.

MR. PARNELL

I beg to say—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order!

MR. PARNELL

I beg to state that I do not propose to anticipate the discussion—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order? It is quite contrary to the Rules of the House, and I cannot permit it.

MR. PARNELL

I shall say no word with reference—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order!