HC Deb 02 August 1888 vol 329 cc1228-31
MR. W. J. CORBET (Wicklow, E.)

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, on the subject of excluding Catholics from serving on juries, Whether it is the fact that, although the Catholic population of Wicklow stands to the Protestant in the relation of four to one, exclusively Protestant juries have been sworn for the trial of capital cases; whether he is aware that on one occasion the Catholic jurors held a meeting in the Town Hall, and passed a Resolution protesting against their treatment; whether he has seen the following observations, made by the presiding Judge at the opening of the Wicklow Assizes on Saturday last, as reported in the Conservative journal, The Irish Times, of July 30:— His Lordship said that at the last Assizes there was reason to complain that without necessity some jurors were required to come into the jury box, which caused great delay, only to be told to stand by, therefore he had conveyed to the Attorney General his disapproval of the course, and he would request the Crown Solicitor to have the names called, and if his mind was made up as to a juror not serving on the jury to say so before he went into the box. Some jurors had complained to him, and there was needless offence caused to them in the Court by calling them into the box and then ordering them to stand by; and, whether, in view of the observations of Judge O'Brien, the practice of excluding Catholics from serving on juries will be discontinued?

THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. MADDEN) (Dublin University)

Perhaps I may be allowed to answer the Question. There is no foundation for the suggestion that jurors were excluded from serving on juries in Wicklow because of their religious belief. A meeting of Catholic jurors is reported to have been hold in the Town Hall. My attention has been called by the Question to the report of the observations attributed to Mr. Justice O'Brien. His observations apply merely to the time at which the Crown Solicitor should direct a juror to stand by, and have no reference to the religious belief of any juror, or to any question as to the exclusion of jurors on any such ground. Those acting on behalf of the Crown will be most willing to adopt the suggestion of the learned Judge; but there is no power to compel those acting on behalf of prisoners to take the same course in the case of challenges.

MR. W. J. CORBET

Is it not a fact that on the day after he made these observations the learned Judge quashed a jury panel on the ground that it had been improperly constituted; whether a number of prisoners had been previously convicted of resistance at an eviction; whether the Judge was asked to make an order for the release of these prisoners, and replied that it was a question for the Executive; and whether, under these circumstances, the Government will see to the release of the prisoners?

MR. MADDEN

There were two objections to a constitution of the jury panel at the Wicklow Assizes. One was a technical matter—non-compliance with the statutes—and upon that ground the whole panel was quashed. On the question of the alleged misconduct on the part of the Sheriff, the triers unanimously found in favour of the Sheriff. I have no specific information with regard to the prisoners referred to by the hon. Member.

THE LORD MAYOR OF DUBLIN (Mr. SEXTON) (Belfast, W.)

asked whether, as the religion of every person in Ireland was officially ascertained by the Census, the hon. and learned Gentleman would have any objection to an arrangement by which the question might be tested? The agents of the Crown systematically excluded Catholics.

MR. MADDEN

I must ask the hon. Gentleman to give Notice of the Question.

MR. J. E. REDMOND (Wexford, N.)

said, he did not think the hon. and learned Gentleman had precisely answered the first paragraph of the Question. He (Mr. Redmond) wished to ask him whether it was the fact that although the Catholic population of Wicklow stood to the Protestant in the proportion of four to one, exclusively Protestant juries had been sworn for the trial of capital cases?

MR. MADDEN

said, he had no specific information as to the proportion of Catholic and Protestant population. No juror had been excluded on the ground of his religion.

MR. MAC NEILL (Donegal, S.)

asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether it was not the invariable practice in England to have no "stand asides" in criminal cases by the Crown; and whether Mr. Justice Stephen had not stated that, in his whole experience, he only knew of two cases?

THE SECRETARY OF STATE (Mr. MATTHEWS) (Birmingham, E.)

I think a Question as to the practice of a Court of Law should not be asked without Notice. An objection to a juror is not raised in England the same way as in Ireland. The practice in England is not to challenge the jurors in the box; but to communicate privately with the officers of the Court.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)

asked whether, in regard to the score of cases which had been transferred, the hon. and learned Gentleman would give the name of a single Catholic who had been allowed to serve on a jury?

MR. MADDEN

said, it was impossible for him to give such a case.

MR. W. REDMOND (Fermanagh, N.)

asked whether, if Catholics were not excluded from juries in Wicklow because of their religion, the hon. and learned Gentleman would say whether they were excluded because of their politics? Did the hon. and learned Gentleman wish them to believe that it was by chance that Protestant juries exclusively had been appointed over and over again to try cases in Wicklow, although there were four Catholics to one Protestant in the population?

MR. MADDEN

said, he was perfectly willing to lay on the Table the Rules by which the action of the Crown Solicitor was regulated in regard to the challenging of jurors. He had known Crown Solicitors for the last 20 years, and he knew that they went by those Rules, and those only.