MR. MAC NEILL (Donegal, S.)asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether it is true, as stated in The Daily News, that at the time of the collision between the military and police and the people in the town of Kilrush on Sunday, all the military and police arrangements were under the supreme command of Mr. Irwin, Resident Magistrate; whether Mr. Irwin, in conjunction with Captain Welch, Resident Magistrate, tried on the 8th of November last, in the said town of Kilrush, under the provisions of the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act, in one batch, 18 persons, who were sentenced to various terms of imprisonment, accompanied in some instances with hard labour and without power of appeal; and, whether Mr. Irwin has, between the 17th of August, 1887, and the 16th of March, 1888, tried in all 132 persons under the Criminal Law and Procedure (Ireland) Act?
§ THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. A. J. BALFOUR) (Manchester, E.)It is the case that on the occasion in question Mr. Irwin was, as Resident Magistrate, in charge of the military and police. It also appears to be the case that he, in conjunction with Captain Welch, Resident Magistrate, tried a number of persons in No- 859 vember last at Kilrush charged with unlawful assembly. Several of them were sentenced to a month's imprisonment with hard labour; some were acquitted, and in a considerable number of the cases "no rule" was marked. There is no official record kept of the number of persons tried by Resident Magistrates.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThat Question, or one like it, was asked early in the Session, and I declined to give it.
MR. MAC NEILLI want to know whether, under the administration of Earl Spencer, the judicial and executive offices of magistrates were not kept distinct?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThey were kept distinct, exactly as they are kept distinct now. I am not aware that there was any difference.
§ MR. J. O'CONNOR, (Tipperary, S.)I desire to ask the Chief Secretary, Whether the Captain Welch mentioned in the Question is the same magistrate who, in conjunction with Colonel Turner, at Ennis, committed an assault on the people last Sunday; whether the people who were sabred, wounded, and batoned by the orders of Captain Welch and Colonel Turner were already prisoners of war; whether they had surrendered and offered no resistance; whether, at the moment their names were being taken, Colonel Turner and Captain Welch ordered the soldiers to charge them with their swords and the police to beat them with their batons; whether the right hon. Gentleman has received any Report of the proceedings at Ennis last Sunday; and, if so, if he will give the House the benefit of that Report?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURThe hon. Member has raised a large number of points in his Question of rather a novel character. He asks me whether certain persons at Ennis were not prisoners of war. My impression is that you can only have prisoners of war when two countries are at war with each other; and that I apprehend is not the case at the present moment in Ireland. The accounts I have of what passed at Ennis do not at all agree with the sketch which the hon. Gentleman has just given to the House.
§ MR. EDWARD HARRINGTON (Kerry, W.)Has the right hon. Gentleman seen the account of the correspondent of The Irish Times, who was wounded in the charge?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURNo; I have not seen that.
MR. MAC NEILLThe right hon. Gentleman, I think, does not apprehend my Question. I want to know whether, under Earl Spencer's régime, the functions of the Resident Magistrates were kept distinct in this way—that the executive functions were wielded by some Resident Magistrates, and the judicial functions by others; and, whether Earl Spencer has not publicly stated that the union of the executive and judicial functions of Resident Magistrates would lead to grave mischief in the administration of public justice?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI am not acquainted with all Earl Spencer's utterances regarding the Crimes Act of 1882; but I should be extremely surprised to learn that Earl Spencer ever laid down a rule, never to be departed from, that because a magistrate tried prisoners in November he was, therefore, debarred from exercising the executive functions which every magistrate in England, Scotland, and Ireland possesses, in April of the following year.
§ MR. SPEAKERI do not think that the subject referred to arises out of the Question on the Paper.
§ MR. LABOUCHERE (Northampton)I should like to ask the Chief Secretary for Ireland, whether he justifies the action of the Resident Magistrate and the commanding officer of the troops in attacking unarmed citizens after all resistance against the armed forces had ceased?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUROf course, all unnecessary attacks are to be deprecated.
§ MR. BRADLAUGH (Northampton)The right hon. Gentleman told us yesterday he had received no official information. I would ask him if he has now received it, and if he can tell the House what that information officially is?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOUROn what special point?
§ MR. BRADLAUGHWith reference to the attack on Sunday.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURWhich attack?
§ MR. BRADLAUGHThe attack by the military and police on the people at Ennis, when several were wounded.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURDoes the hon. Gentleman mean the attack where one of the newspaper correspondents was hurt?
§ MR. BRADLAUGHYes.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURWhat I understand happened was this. There was an illegal assembly in a warehouse outside Ennis. The police assembled there to find out the names of the persons who were present; and when they were engaged in the exercise of their duty they were received with a shower of stones not only from the warehouse itself, but also from the neighbouring houses. Under these circumstances, the Resident Magistrates very properly ordered the police to charge.
§ MR. J. O'CONNORI beg to give Notice that to-morrow I shall ask the right hon. Gentleman whether—
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! If the hon. Gentleman will put that Question on the Paper in the usual way, no doubt it will be answered.
§ MR. MACNEILLMay I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether he is aware that Colonel Turner telegraphed to the Editor of The Irish Times expressing his deep regret at the injuries which had been inflicted upon the correspondent of that journal?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI am, of course, very glad to give all the information in my power to the House. I may point out that these Questions as to what occurred at Ennis are supposed to arise out of the Question on the Paper regarding Kilrush; but I do not press the point. I have no information that Colonel Turner telegraphed his regret. If he did, I have no doubt he felt it.
§ Subsequently,
§ MR. GILL (Louth, S.)asked the Chief Secretary, Whether his attention had been called to the statement of the wounded correspondent of The Irish Times, in which he says—
At the time I was standing in the doorway the 3rd Hussars were drawn up in front"—
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! That is practically a Notice of a Question; and it is quite competent for the hon. Gentleman to put it upon the Paper.
§ MR. GILLBut, Sir, with reference to the statement of the Chief Secretary that a shower of stones was thrown, I would call his attention to this specific statement—namely, that The Irish Times' correspondent says there was no disorder, no hooting or cheering, and no missile thrown.
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURMy attention was not called to the article, as I think I stated before, and I have not seen it. But the statement which the hon. Gentleman has just made is in direct contradiction to the information which I have received, which indicates that the charge was a direct consequence of a shower of stones from the upper windows of the building.
§ MR. GILLAs the right hon. Gentleman says his attention has not been called to the statement of the correspondent of The Irish Times, will he consider and examine that statement as being the statement of a reputable witness, one who was present on the occasion, and who suffered in the mêlée?
§ MR. A. J. BALFOURI shall, of course, be glad to examine that and any further statements which the hon. Gentleman may bring under my notice.
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order!