HC Deb 09 May 1887 vol 314 cc1270-3
MR. CHANCE (Kilkenny, S.)

asked the Parliamentary Under Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether any Statement has been received from Lord Granard or his representatives as to the allegation of Messrs. Roe, that the mortgagees of Lord Granard's estates were responsible for the impending evictions on such estates, or as to the allegation that the authorities of Maynooth College are the mortgagees; and, whether he will lay such Statement upon the Table of the House?

THE PARLIAMENTARY UNDER SECRETARY (Colonel KING-HARMAN) (Kent, Isle of Thanet)

Sir, the Irish Government have nothing to add to my reply given to a Question on this subject on Thursday last, beyond saying that they have received convincing assurances that the authorities of Maynooth College are the mortgagees of Lord Granard's Drumlish property for a considerable sum, and that they have been pressing —and naturally pressing—for the interest due.

MR. CHANCE

By the indulgence of House, as this is a matter of some importance, I wish to make a short statement. On Thursday night, the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, in reply to a Question, said the Government were informed that the agents had stated that it was the mortgagees who were pressing the matter to eviction, that the agents were Messrs. Roe, and the mortgagees Maynooth College. I hold in my hand a statement from the President of Maynooth College, in which he says neither; the authorities nor any other person connected with the College are responsible, directly or indirectly, for originating or pressing these evictions, and that: the first he heard of them was in the newspapers. I hold in my hand a copy of a letter written on the 7th instant by Lord Granard to the President of Maynooth College, in which he expresses his surprise at the statement of the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, and characterizes it as utterly erroneous. I have now to ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman who is the informant of the Government in this matter; and, whether he will lay the information he has received before the House?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

The information the Government received on this question with regard to the mortgagees was obtained from the officials engaged in the administration of the law in County Longford, The House will remember that I did not state the name of the mortgagees until specially asked the question by the hon. and learned Member for North Longford (Mr. T. M. Healy). I particularly refrained from doing so. My informants with regard to the College authorities being the mortgagees were Messrs. Darley and Roe; and I have received information from them that not only that Maynooth did hold the mortgage, but as to the sum and the conditions of the mortgage.

MR. CHANCE

Will the right hon. and gallant Gentleman inform the House whether he has received any information from Lord Granard on the subject; and whether he still states that the Trustees or authorities of Maynooth College are, directly or indirectly, party or privy to these transactions?

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

I am not aware, nor did I over state, that Maynooth College were. [Cries of "You did!" from the Irish Benches.] What I stated was that the agents had made no secret of the matter that Lord Granard was not in the least anxious to treat his tenants harshly, but for the action of the mortgagees, as I have said just now, in pressing—and very naturally and properly pressing—for the interest due on the mortgage, which obliged the landlord to have recourse to proceedings against the tenants.

MR. T. M. HEALY (Longford, N.)

He states now that it was the mortgagees who were responsible for these evictions; and I wish to ask has his attention been called—

COLONEL KING-HARMAN

I never made use of the words the hon. and learned Gentleman used.

MR. T. M. HEALY

said, that the right hon. and gallant Gentleman wished to imply that the authorities of Maynooth were responsible for these evictions; and he would like to ask him if his attention had been called to a letter which had been published in The Longford Independent of the 26th ultimo, which was addressed to the clerk at the Mohill Union, and which was a follows:— In reference to the statement made by you that the above estate, on which the evictions took place, is out of Lord Granard's hands, and in the hands of a receiver, we must ask you to contradict this statement at the next meeting of the Board. His Lordship's estate is not, nor never has been in the hands of a receiver.— Yours, &c, Darley and Roe. He (Mr. Healy) wished to ask the right hon. and gallant Gentleman, as Messrs. Darley and Roe were the agents of Lord Granard, how it was he had drawn in the name of Maynooth College in order to prejudice a seminary for the education of Catholic priests?

MR. CHANCE

I wish to remind the right hon. and gallant Gentleman of his words on Thursday night.

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The hon. Gentleman is not entitled to debate this Question. The Question has been asked, and it is for the right hon. and gallant Gentleman to answer if he sees fit.

MR. T. M. HEALY

I wish to ask the First Lord of the Treasury, whether, in these matters, it is part of the instructions of the Government that the right hon. Gentleman the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant deliberately abstains from coming into the House until Questions are over; because, if that be the case, I will draw attention to it as a matter of urgent public importance.

THE FIRST LORD (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)

I think that is a Question which really ought not to be put to me. The exigencies of Public Business require, under certain circumstances, that the Chief Secretary should devote himself to urgent business of his Department; and, in the meanwhile, my right hon. and gallant Friend (Colonel King-Harman) answers the Questions, and the duties to the public and the House are adequately discharged.

MR. T. M. HEALY

I wish to give Notice that if the Chief Secretary continues to absent himself, and leaves us to the mercy of this Orangeman, I shall call attention—

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The interposition of the hon. and learned Gentleman is most un-Parliamentary.