§ THE FIRST LORD OF THE TREASURY (Mr. W. H. SMITH) (Strand, Westminster)Mr. Speaker, Sir, I ask your permission to refer to some observations which fell from the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby (Sir William Harcourt), who I am sorry to see is not now in his place, when you were unfortunately called in to deal with a very painful incident which occurred this evening—an incident which I am sure the whole of the House deeply regrets. The right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby said he had noticed coming continually and habitually from hon. Members below the Gangway on this side of the House, words of studied insult and provocation to the Irish Members. Well Sir, I must protest against the use of language 482 of this character under circumstances which were totally and absolutely irregular. You, Sir, called the right hon. Gentleman to Order, and immediately left the Chair, and I was not therefore able to take notice of these words at the time; but I venture to say, Sir, that a course of conduct like that——
§ MR. SPEAKEROrder, order! The remarks which the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby (Sir William Harcourt) made were irregular. I may perhaps mention at once to the House what took place. The right hon. Gentleman thought it necessary, after what had occurred, to make an appeal, and I could not, of course, refuse to listen to it. But in the course of the appeal, I am bound to say the right hon. Gentleman made an accusation against a certain section of the House, which I can quite understand gave offence. The right hon. Gentleman stated, as I learn now from the protest of the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury, that there was systematic insult—systematic provocation and studied insult—used towards a certain quarter of the House. I am bound to say that, during my tenure of the Chair, I have not noticed, from any quarter of the House any conduct of that nature. Of course, as to what has just passed in Committee I am not qualified to speak; but I have such complete confidence in the exercise of his authority by the hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees (Mr. Courtney) that I am sure he would not pass over anything, without noticing it at the time, savouring of systematic insult or studied provocation. I am bound to say that certain remarks of the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby were out of Order, and before he sat down he gave utterance to that which I should not have allowed had I known what he intended to say. I believed he was rising on a point of Order, and wished to make an appeal to me.
§ MR. W. H. SMITHAfter those observations, Sir, I do not wish to carry the incident any further. I certainly had no desire to be irregular in any remarks I have made. I am quite satisfied to have obtained from you a declaration on the point of Order.
§ Sir WILLIAM HARCOURT (Derby)(who had entered during the remarks of the First Lord of the Treasury) here rose——
§ LORD RANDOLPH CHURCHILL (Paddington, S.)I rise to a point of Order. I wish to know what Question, Sir, is before the House?
§ MR. SPEAKERThere is no Question before the House; and, in short, the appeal made to me by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Derby was in itself irregular. Of course, I could not but listen to him on a point of Order. But as, in the course of his remarks, the right hon. Gentleman made use of an expression which has given offence in certain quarters of this House, I have permitted these remarks to be made by the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury as a protest, although they were not pertinent to a matter actually before the House.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTI should like to put myself in Order, and will therefore move the adjournment of the House. If the right hon. Gentleman the First Lord of the Treasury has any charge to make against me, I hope he will make it in my presence. I was absent from the House at the moment he spoke; but if he had given me any notice of his intention, I would have been here. All I can say is, that I do not know what charge he has made; but I am prepared to maintain all that I have said.
§ MR. SPEAKERI really do hope that, in the interests of the Order of this House, I may be allowed to say that no charge was made against the right hon. Gentleman; but a protest was made against certain expressions which he used in the course of remarks he made. I could not refuse to listen to the appeal made by the right hon. Gentleman, it being an appeal to me on a point of Order; but before the right hon. Gentleman sat down he stated that there was systematic provocation and studied insult to some quarter of the House. I said that during my tenure of the Chair I had not noticed it in any quarter of the House—and I added that I had such confidence in the administration of his duties by the hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees, that I did not believe for a moment he would pass over anything of the kind.
§ SIR WILLIAM HARCOURTWill you allow me to make one word of explanation to you? I was not speaking of either when you or the hon. Gentle- 484 man the Chairman of Committees was in the Chair, and I was not suggesting that any improper conduct from any quarter of the House had passed without animadversion. I entirely admit that the hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees has more than once found it necessary to state—and I say it in his presence, I know he will confirm me—that he has greatly regretted the course that has been taken in regard to interruptions of the Irish Members. On the painful occasion on which he invited you, Sir, to come into the Chair to deal with an incident which we all regret, I did allude to that fact, not finding any fault with the conduct of the Chair, but asking you to appeal to the House that these things, on which the hon. Gentleman the Chairman of Committees has so frequently animadverted, should not occur again.
§ THE CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES (Mr. COURTNEY) (Cornwall, Bodmin)I think I may be allowed one word, though we all wish to see the scene closed. It is quite true that I have more than once lamented and reprobated what I thought was unseemly conduct in a certain quarter of the House—and not that quarter of the House alone—but I never thought of the existence of anything which could be described as systematic provocation and insult. It appeared to me rather to be wanton levity—a want of consideration, regard, and respect for other hon. Members of the House, who, as long as they are Members of the House, deserve to be treated in every respect as every other Member is.