HC Deb 28 January 1887 vol 310 cc165-7
MR. T. FRY (Darlington)

asked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, If he has, or if not, if he will take steps to prevent the further burning and levelling of cottages at Glen- beigh; and, if it is by the authority of the Government that General Sir Redvers Buller has endeavoured to obtain from the mortgagee of that estate very large concessions of rent?

THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Sir MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH) (Bristol, W.)

General Buller's action in this matter is shown in the correspondence that has been published. He did not interfere at all until 70 ejectments were in the hands of the Sheriff; and he was thanked by both sides for aiding in effecting an agreement which, if kept by the tenants, would have prevented what has occurred. Of course, Her Majesty's Government are responsible for his action. I have no legal right, and therefore no power, to take the steps suggested by the hon. Member in the first part of the Question. I am sure the hon. Member is actuated in his interference in this matter by the most benevolent of motives; and I hope he will give me credit on my part for being quite as sorry as he can be for any suffering inflicted upon these poor people, although we may disagree as to the cause of that suffering. Now, I will give a friendly challenge to the hon. Member. There is but one real remedy for such a case as this. It is to remove these people from this poverty-stricken district.

DR. TANNER (Cork Co., Mid)

Shame!

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order!

DR. TANNER

Remove the landlords.

MR. T. FRY

I rise to a point of Order. Is the right hon. Gentleman entitled to enter upon questions of debate?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

Removed with their own free will to some other place in Ireland.

DR. TANNER

Mr. Speaker, I rise to a point of Order. I ask you whether the right hon. Gentleman is not out of Order?

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! The Chief Secretary for Ireland.

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

To some other place in Ireland, or elsewhere, where they can live in real prosperity and comfort.

DR. TANNER

Shame, shame!

MR. SPEAKER

Order, order! I must call the attention of the hon. Gentleman to the fact that he has just uttered a word which is not Parliamentary. He used the word "Shame." It is a word which is of recent use, and one which is becoming frequent. It is an expression which ought to be rigorously put down. With the authority and sanction of the House, I shall propose for the future to take notice of it.

MR. T. FRY

I rise to a point of Order. I wish to ask you, Sir, whether, in answer to a Question of this kind, the right hon. Gentleman is at liberty to go into so many points which are really points of debate?

MR. SPEAKER

Unquestionably in an answer to a Question it is the Question itself that has to be answered, and debate is not permitted.

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

All I wish to say is this—that if the hon. Member and those who take an interest in this matter should desire to promote such a settlement, I shall be most delighted to give them all the aid in my power, public or private, towards carrying it out.

MR. T. C. HARRINGTON (Dublin, Harbour)

I wish to know whether the right hon. Gentleman wishes to convey to the House that the expression of thanks on the part of both parties given to Sir Redvers Buller was an expression of thanks on the part of the tenants whose houses were levelled and burnt down under the process of eviction?

MR. CONYBEARE (Cornwall, Camborne)

I wish to ask whether we are to understand by the answer of the right hon. Gentleman that this expression of thanks which we are told was conveyed by both parties to Sir Redvers Buller was conveyed to him for having instigated and advised the levelling of the tenants' own houses?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

The expression of thanks appears in the correspondence to which I refer, and the thanks were given by Mr. Head on the Bide of the landlords, and on the side of the tenants by Father Quilter.

MR. WILLIAM REDMOND (Fermanagh, N.)

I wish to ask the Government a very simple Question arising out of this matter. It is, does the Government approve of the action of Mr. Winn and his agent in burning these people out of their homes?

SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACH

It is not my business to express any opinion whatever on the subject.