§ MR. MARK STEWART (Kirkcudbright)I rise for the purpose of calling the attention of the House to the question of the better arming of the Volunteer Artillery. I feel that it is most important, in order that the Artillery Volunteers should obtain the greatest efficiency, that better guns, of precision and otherwise, gun-carriages, and Martini - Henry rifles should be placed at their disposal. We have heard a good deal from the hon. Member for Bradford (Mr. Illingworth) about the vast expenditure upon the two great Services of the country, and the right hon. Gentlemen sitting on the two Front Benches have given concurrent testimony to the fact. Now, the Motion which stands in my name on the Paper is one which, if it could be adopted, would tend rather to produce economy than expenditure; and, therefore, I think it is one which will commend itself to the House, and especially to that school of opinion of which the hon. Member for Bradford is so conspicuous an advocate. We were told at the beginning of this evening's proceedings, by no less an 1565 authority than the Prime Minister, that any increase of the Volunteer Estimate must be considered as an addition to the Public Expenditure. I strongly protest against that view of the case. At present we have a force of some 250,000 men, who give their time and services for the country's good in exchange for no pay whatever; and, therefore, any step that can be taken to improve their position cannot be held to be an addition to the expenditure of the country. We were further told by the Chancellor of the Exchequer that this Vote would be of no avail this year; but those who have the honour to command Volunteer regiments know very well what the Capitation Grant is which is paid by the Treasury; and if the same course is to be pursued with regard to it this year I am afraid that we shall find matters gradually growing worse. It is on this ground that I regretted to find the Government, in the early part of the evening, disinclined to concede the moderate request made on this side of the House for an addition of 10s. to the Capitation Grant for the Volunteers. In speaking on this subject—namely, the Artillery Volunteers—I believe that I am standing alone, because I believe that I am the only Commandant of Artillery Volunteers who has a seat in this House; and considering the importance of the question I am anxious to raise—and it has an important bearing upon the defences of the country, especially on our commercial ports—I think it is second to no subject which has been before the House this evening. We are all most desirous that not only should the Volunteers be put upon a better footing, but that the equipment of the force should be in such a satisfactory condition as would enable the Volunteers to afford real aid to the Army in a time of war. We have some 45,000 Artillery Volunteers in this country, and they are zealous and earnest in their work. Representing a force which extends over three counties, I can bear my testimony to the great advantage this Artillery Force would receive, if it could not only have the extra Capitation Grant which we endeavoured to obtain at an earlier part of the evening, but also if it could be furnished with 40-pounder guns wherewith to exercise the men. There can be no doubt that during the past few years the Artillery Volun- 1566 teers have suffered through not being supplied with proper guns and arms of precision. The old 32-pounders with which we have been supplied have been rendered unfit for work long ago, and it is very difficult now to bring up our men for that gun practice which it is desirable they should have. When a few nights ago I addressed a Question to a right hon. Gentleman on the other side of the House, whom I do not see in his place now, I was told that a good many 32-pounders had already been served out, and that there were no more in store of that calibre. Now, it is of the utmost importance that we should get guns of some kind in our batteries, so that we may thoroughly exercise our men in the use of arms of precision; or otherwise they may become indifferent and careless. It is of no use employing the old 32-pounders with any idea that we may thereby perfect the drill of the men; and yet that is an object the importance of which I am most desirous of impressing on the House with all the force I can. I think it is of extreme importance that for the purpose of exercise Artillery Volunteers should be furnished with 40 - pounder guns. If it is the case that a 40-pounder gun costs a large sum of money, and that there are very few in store at present, or that there have not been so many made as ought to be made, could not the Government see their way to provide 9, 10, or 12-pounders for practice in field evolutions, so that the Artillery Volunteers maybe enabled to take their proper position in the field if necessity should arise? I suggested to the right hon. Gentleman that we might be supplied with 20-pounder guns; but the answer was that guns of that description were never served out to the Artillery Volunteers. Very likely not, but we merely ask to be supplied with them for practice. There is another point to which I should like to draw the attention of the right hon. Gentleman, and it is this—even those corps and batteries which have been so highly favoured as to have 40-pounders or 60-pounders served out to them are un-provided with proper gun-carriages, and have no means of transporting the guns from their winter quarters, and from the drill-sheds which have been put up by the Artillery officers at considerable expense, in order to use them at their summer quarters and at their ranges 1567 and places of practice. What happens? It is not unusual to see a large force of Artillery Volunteers marching behind carts carrying 4-pounders down to the ranges at which they are to practise. I think it is of the utmost importance that the Volunteers should be better equipped and furnished with arms. Now that the Rifle Corps have the Martini - Henry rifle it is hard that the Artillery Volunteers should not have the Martini-Henry carbine. Why should not the Government give us equal advantages with the Rifle Volunteers, by enabling us to furnish our regiments with adequate guns out of the Government stores? I throw out that suggestion, and I would urge upon the right hon. Gentleman that, considering the Rifle Volunteers have the benefit of the Martini - Henry rifle without charge, the Artillery Volunteers should receive the same benefit; and surely 45,000 stand of arms could be turned out in a very short time in the Government factories. Therefore, I think that the country should be called upon to make this provision without further delay. It is not very much to ask, and I believe that in the end it would, if granted, promote economy in the Estimates. I would also ask the Government to afford the Volunteers an opportunity of obtaining their uniforms from the Government stores at a cheap rate, and I would suggest that a waist-belt and pouch should be granted. They cost the Volunteer about 12s. or 14s.; and considering the officers have to make good any deficiencies, and that they already are required to advance considerable sums of money, it is rather hard, now that the real value of the Volunteer Force is becoming more fully recognized, that the Volunteers themselves should be required to purchase all the things which are necessary in order to maintain them in a proper condition. I have already said that my command extended over a wide area of country. That is a circumstance which renders it a matter of great moment to assemble the different batteries together at least once a-year. All connected with the Volunteer Force will agree with me in saying that it is of importance that men who may be called upon to act together should have an opportunity of knowing each other. At present they are unable to do so on account of the 1568 expenditure involved, and if they go into camp they receive nothing beyond a bare 2s. a-day from the day they go into it until the day they leave it. I think it is absurd and monstrous to expect that men will give up all their time to the service of their country unless they are more liberally treated. The men themselves are called upon to make great sacrifices; and if their travelling expenses are not paid, it is hardly reasonable to expect that the officers will bring pressure to bear upon the men to induce them to leave their families and their industrial occupations in order to go for three or four days into camp, notwithstanding the importance of bringing the men together and showing them the details of their duty. If the right hon. Gentleman will consent to do something in this direction, he will confer an immense boon upon this branch of the Service, and his name will be held in very high estimation indeed by the Volunteer Force. There is another point upon which I desire to say a word, and that is to impress upon the right hon. Gentleman not only the importance of giving us better guns, but of giving us better carriages for the guns; of giving us travelling carriages and limbers, Martini-Henry carbines, and better arms of precision generally. Any advances which may have been made during the past year I hope will be continued during the present. I believe that the present is the time to give all legitimate assistance and encouragement to the Volunteers, and not when under the influence of panic or invasion. I ask the right hon. Gentleman to consider the case of the Artillery Volunteers from an economical point of view. I ask him to enable us to bring these large bodies of men together without throwing all the expenses upon the men themselves. It is absolutely necessary that the detached and isolated batteries which exist in the East and West of Scotland should be allowed to come together once a-year for practice; that they should be furnished with the best weapons that can be procured; and if the right hon. Gentleman, if he cannot supply us with 40-pounders, will allow us to have some of the 9 or 12 - pounders now in store, we shall then be able to enter into real practice, and, I have no doubt, with the most successful result.