§ MR. M'COANasked the First Lord of the Treasury, Whether any steps have been taken by any of the other Powers joining in the guarantee of the Egyptian Loan to obtain the sanction of their Legislatures; and, if not, what is the cause of the delay, and what steps will be taken, pending the issue of the loan, to find funds for meeting the administrative and other expenses of Egypt?
MR. GLADSTONE,who was most indistinctly heard, was understood to say: The information in possession of the Foreign Office is as follows:—The French Government have brought in a Bill authorizing the Convention—practically for the ratification of the Convention—I am not sure if ratification is technically correct—but, at any rate, to give full effect to the Convention. This Bill has been favourably reported upon by the Committee of the Chambers to which it was referred; and we presume that it will proceed in the usual course. The Italian Government have also introduced a Bill into the Chamber of Deputies to authorize the ratification of the Convention. No steps have yet been taken by the Governments of Germany and Austria-Hungary to obtain the sanction of their Parliaments to the Convention. I understand that there is a Dissolution either taking place or about to take place immediately in Austria, and I have heard—but I cannot say positively—that the German Parliament does not meet for some time. We are under the impression that in these circumstances no ratification by these Parliaments will take place until the close of 1152 the Summer. I ought to mention that, with respect to the causes of delay, I am not sure that we should be justified, without much fuller knowledge of the forms and the usual methods of procedure, in stating that there is any undue delay in the ratification of the Convention in the case of France and Italy. With regard to the other Powers, I have stated all we know. As to the steps that will be taken pending the issue of the loan for meeting the administrative and other expenses of Egypt, I have not seen, and I do not think that the Government have received, any statement of the present condition of the Egyptian Treasury with regard to cash which would enable us to pass any judgment on the suggestions which have been made upon the subject. My impression is that the time of the year, on which, of course, a great deal depends, is one of comparative ease to the Egyptian Government; but I must not be understood to say that no difficulty will arise.
§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELL,in reference to a statement which had appeared in The Times of that morning, that Messrs. Rothschild had notified with regard to the Unified Debt that the 5 per cent on the coupons would not be deducted, asked, Whether Her Majesty's Government could state whether the Government of Egypt, acting under the advice of Her Majesty's Government, had accepted the necessity of considering that the decree of the Khedive sanctioned by the Convention would not come into force until the Powers had agreed to the loan of £9,000,000?
MR. JOSEPH COWENasked, whether there was any reason to suppose that the German and Austrian Governments had any objection to the Convention, or whether the delay in the ratification of it arose simply from the Parliamentary system of the two countries?
MR. GLADSTONEThe Convention, as the hon. Gentleman well knows, was concluded with the full assent of the authorized Representatives, the Plenipotentiaries of Germany and Austria, and no communication has reached us from either of these Governments, nor has anything occurred that would justify us in assuming that there is any objection or difficulty. As far as we are able to judge upon the facts before us—although I am not officially informed on the point—the delay is simply an in- 1153 cident connected with the arrangements of the year for the transaction of Parliamentary Business in these countries.
§ LORD JOHN MANNERSasked whether the right hon. Gentleman could now indicate any time at which the Alexandria indemnities were likely to be paid?
MR. GLADSTONEI am afraid, Sir, that would depend on the time of the raising of the loan, and I am not in a position to indicate a time when that loan could be raised, because that matter is at this moment under legal investigation. I believe that a conclusion will be arrived at, so far as we are able to do it, in a very short time. What that conclusion may be it is impossible for me to say. Of course, it is a matter of law under the terms of the Convention.
§ MR. M'COANsaid, that, as the Austrian Parliament did not meet until October, he wished to know what was to be done with the coupons which fell due before that time. Would the deductions be made from them also as had been done with those of the past half-year?
MR. GLADSTONEI cannot undertake to say. All I can say is that we shall adopt the best course in our power to provide for the case in anticipation.
§ MR. SCLATER-BOOTHasked whether he was to understand that the legal question referred to related to the reductions to be made on the coupons or to the fact that the loan could not be issued without the consent of the Legislatures of Germany and other Powers?
MR. GLADSTONEI really cannot undertake, in answer to a Question, to state the nature of a reference on a point of law. I must leave that to the production of the case after we are in possession of the opinions which we may receive upon the best authority.
§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELLasked whether, if the 5 per cent deduction on the coupons had already been made on the 1st of May, it would, if illegal, be repaid?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEsaid, that he could not give any precise answer to the Question. Communications were passing upon the subject, and, until they were concluded, he did not think that it would be prudent to make any further statement in reference to it.
§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELLasked whether the notice which appeared in that morning's papers by the Messrs. Rothschild that there was to be no deduction from the coupons was issued with the authority of the Egyptian Government?
MR. GLADSTONEWe cannot say. If my hon. Friend will really consider he will see that this is a question which it is impossible for us to settle without communication with anybody else. Sorry as I am to do so, I must impress upon him the importance of exercising patience, and the necessity of cultivating that virtue.
§ SIR H. DRUMMOND WOLFFasked whether the other Powers of Europe had been consulted before the issue of the Khedivial Decree imposing a tax of 5 per cent on the coupons; whether their consent had been asked; and, if not, whether, since that Decree was issued, they had unanimously repudiated it?
§ LORD EDMOND FITZMAURICEI do not think that it would be advisable to make any statement on this matter without Notice. The hon. Member will see that his Question involves an exceedingly delicate subject. Of course, just as the House is going to rise, I am unwilling to ask for Notice; but, at the same time, I really hope that the hon. Gentleman will excuse my declining to answer his Question.