§ MR. HEALYI wish to ask the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government Board, When the statement which the Chief Secretary promised would be made to-night on the subject of registration is to be made, by whom, and under what circumstances?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI was about to make a statement on the subject on the Motion to proceed with the Orders of the Day; but I will make it now in answer to the hon. Member. Her Majesty's Government have had to consider, since the debate and division on the Irish Registration Bill on the 24th of April, whether they could make any proposal to meet in part the views put forward by hon. and right hon. Gentlemen opposite. As regards Ireland, a special and temporary grant of a few thousand pounds was made in 1863 for the acceleration of registration. We have prepared for the Irish Bill a clause which follows generally the precedent of 1868, which will be found in the 31 & 32 Vict. c. 112, s. 27, with two exceptions—first, the benefits of the clause are extended to collectors of poor rates, which is now deemed proper owing to the much larger number of new voters in 1885; secondly, such Clerks of the Peace as receive salaries from the Votes and are bound to give their whole time to the public are not to get any extra pay. There were none in this position in 1868. The expenditure in 1868 was about £6,200. This year, allowing for the changed conditions, it will be about £10,000 as a maximum. Provision is, as the House knows, already made for 1513 the payment of additional Revising Barristers out of voted moneys.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKENo; it is all for the purposes I have mentioned—the purposes for which the £6,200 was made in 1868. As regards England and Scotland, we cannot be parties in the last year of a Parliament to proposing that the whole charge of Parliamentary registration should permanently be thrown upon the public in general taxes. No proposal with regard to England and Scotland was made in 1868. We are, however, prepared to make a temporary proposal for the present year which will leave the matter open for the consideration of the new Parliament, either in connection with the reform of local government and taxation generally or otherwise. The expenses of overseers are not separated in the local taxation returns from expenses connected with municipal registration and the preparation and printing of jury lists. Neither is there any return distinguishing what proportion of the overseers' expenses is for county and what for borough registration. The direct repayment of the overseers' expenses would be almost impossible for reasons which we are prepared to give in debate. There are also the expenses of the Clerks of the Peace in counties, including remuneration for their services which are subject to an allowance by Quarter Sessions paid out of the county rate. These expenses in 1883—excluding a few counties in which no return was made—were in England, £12,572. As regards boroughs, scarcely any additional trouble or cost will be occasioned by the Franchise Act. County voters in boroughs are included in the county register in England. The pressure will be in the counties, and there, no doubt, especially in the present year, it will be great. Our proposal is to make a grant to the counties in respect of the county registers and the other expenses of the Clerks of the Peace in England, and the assessors of the Valuation Rolls and other officers in Scotland, whose labour and expenditure will be very largely increased at the coming registration. In order to guard against extravagance and abuse we shall propose that this Vote shall be calculated on an estimate of the 1514 number of voters on the register for 1886. A contribution of 2d. a name would amount in England to about £20,000, which could be remitted with very little trouble to the county treasurers to the credit of the county rate, and a similar amount would be transmitted to the Commissioners of Supply in Scotland. That is the proposal which we shall be prepared to submit to the House in Committee of Supply.
§ LORD JOHN MANNERSasked whether it was proposed to give £20,000 to Scotland as well as to England?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEI said a corresponding sum to Scotland. I meant at the rate of 2d. a name.
§ COLONEL NOLANDo the calculations of the Government show that the £10,000 for Ireland will cover all the expenses now paid by the Poor Law Unions?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEAs the Irish proposal will be made in a clause of the Bill, I would suggest to the hon. and gallant Member that it would be better to discuss it on the clause.
§ SIR MICHAEL HICKS-BEACHasked whether the proposal with regard to England would be embodied in a clause, so that the House might know what they had before them? As far as he gathered, the Government only proposed a temporary grant of £20,000 to England, although the registration expenses under the present system were more than £100,000.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEWhat the registration expenses are it is difficult to estimate. Our proposal is as the right hon. Gentleman has stated, and I shall be glad to answer any question respecting it which on reflection the right hon. Baronet may think fit to give Notice of. No clause will be necessary. This will be a matter for settlement by a Vote in Supply.
MR. GORSTasked if he was right in understanding that the proposed subsidy was to be entirely in relief of those expenses of registration which were charged upon the county rates, and if no relief would be given in respect of those which fell upon the poor rates?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEIn our opinion it will be impossible to repay the overseers' expenses which in the case of a great majority of parishes amount to only a few shillings.
§ SIR GEORGE CAMPBELLsaid, that the Scottish Bill which had passed through Committee contained a clause by which the Sheriffs were enabled in their discretion to employ any number of assessors, and to fix seven guineas a-day as their remuneration. He wished to ask whether the Local Authority would have any control in regard to the expenditure?
THE LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. J. B. BALFOUR)There are only two or three places in Scotland where any such employment would be necessary at all—Lanarkshire and possibly one or two others.
§ MR. GIBSONIn view of the statement of the right hon. Gentleman the President of the Local Government Board, I wish to ask is the £10,000 to be proposed for Ireland a temporary sum for the purposes of the next revision? Secondly, is the £10,000 a sum that will give a greater or less proportion for each vote than 2d.?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEA greater proportion.
§ MR. GIBSONHow much?
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEHow much more depends upon whether you count the borough as well as the county votes.
§ MR. HEALYI wish to ask the Solicitor General for Ireland if he can state whether the Government have now made up their minds with regard to the Question I asked the Irish Secretary on Friday—Whether the Government will ask the Local Government Board to put down the exact scale on which they purpose to remunerate the officials, unless they intend, as we press them to do, to leave it to the Boards of Guardians; and whether, as the Bill is now being reprinted, the Government will put down their own Amendments, and also re-arrange the numbering of the clauses?
§ THE SOLICITOR GENERAL FOR IRELAND (Mr. WALKER)said, with respect to the last remarks of the hon. Member, he had anticipated them; with respect to the former, a statement would be made on Report.