§ Bill, as amended, considered.
§
MR. WARTON moved the insertion of the following clause:—
(Amendment of Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1883.)
Part II. of the First Schedule of 'The Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1883,' shall he read and construed as if the words following were not contained therein, viz. 'not exceeding the amount authorised by the Act of the thirty-eighth and thirty-ninth years of Victoria, chapter 84.'
The hon. and learned Gentleman observed that Parliament was now about to extend the hours of polling; and the effect of such extension would be, of course, to throw extra expenses upon those who had to go through Parliamentary Elections. That being the case, he would invite the House to consider what was the position in which hon. Members or candidates would be placed under the provisions of the Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act. It would be found that they would run a very great risk of losing their seats by reason of exceeding the maximum expense allowed by law. There would be found in the Schedules of the Act what appeared to be a thorough inconsistency. As the Act passed through Committee it was consistent enough; but on Report an Amendment was introduced which was adopted without consideration, and without proper attention being called to its effect. In the second part of the first Schedule to the Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, under the head of legal expenses, were the words "sums paid to the Returning Officer for his charges." He stopped there for a moment, because those were the words of the Schedule as the Bill passed
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through Committee; and in accordance with those words the Schedule contained an account of the expenses payable by the candidate to the Returning Officer for his charges at the election. But the effect of the introduction of those words which he now asked the House to strike out would put the candidate into this position—that he was exposed to the danger of the Returning Officer asking for more than he was entitled to give; and the Returning Officer, if not paid, might refuse to act. The candidate might very innocently pay a little more than was quite right; for anyone who looked at the first Schedule of the Act 38 & 39 Vict., c. 84, would find that there were 30 or 40 items, all of which were to be charged for. It would be easy, then, for the Returning Officer, by accident or design, to make a miscalculation of the items to be charged. For instance, the scale of charge for a clerk was one guinea. But the Returning Officer might say—"That was all very well when the poll was only open for eight hours; but now that the hours have been extended I cannot get a clerk to do the work for that money." The candidate, therefore, would be no longer free from the danger, when paying what was demanded by the Returning Officer, of paying 1s. more than the expenses which were allowed by law; and if he did he would lose his seat for exceeding the maximum. Such a thing would be most unjust, and he (MR. Warton) therefore preferred the insertion of this new clause, which would remedy the defect or evil that he had pointed out.
§ New Clause (Amendment of Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, 1883,)—(Mr. Warton,)—brought up, and read the first time.
§ Motion made, and Question proposed, "That the said. Clause be now read a second time."
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES)I must say that I have heard with a great deal of satisfaction the speech in which the hon. and learned Gentleman has just proposed this clause. I remember the circumstances under which the Amendment to the Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act of which he complains was made. I endeavoured at the time to point out that it was scarcely fair to the candidates or to the Returning Officers; but a 1182 majority of the House voted for it, and it was inserted in the Bill. Under these circumstances, therefore, I am able to regard with very much satisfaction the views which the hon. and learned Gentleman has now expressed. As to the proposition now before the House, I may point out to the hon. and learned Gentleman that it is not really germane to the measure which is now under discussion; but we have undertaken to introduce a Bill in relation to Returning Officers' expenses, and we have so framed the title of that Bill that it will be open to the hon. and learned Member to propose his Amendment during the progress of that Bill. This Amendment will have a much more direct relation to that Bill than it has to this, and it will give an opportunity for discussing the question and allowing the House to decide whether it will or will not do as the hon. and learned Gentleman suggests.
§ MR. HEALYexpressed a hope that the Government would not assent to any proposal for increasing the expenses of Returning Officers at Parliamentary Elections. It appeared to him that the subject might be germane to the 8th clause of the present Bill, because that clause dealt with points in connection with the expenses of Returning Officers, inasmuch as it provided that at a General Election the polls for all the divisions of a divided borough should be taken on the same day. He would like to know whether the Returning Officer was to get as much out of each of the unfortunate candidates for a constituency with four seats, as he did out of each of the candidates for a constituency with only two seats? If the hon. and learned Member for Bridport (Mr. Warton) would move his Amendment upon the next clause it would be germane to the Parliamentary Elections (Redistribution) Bill; and he (Mr. Healy) hoped the Government would not agree to anything which proposed to increase those expenses, for the inclination of the Irish Party was to see such expenses cut down to the utmost possible limit, as they were, at the present time, unfair and extortionate.
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSI forget what were the exact circumstances under which the Amendment to the Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act, which it is now sought to upset, was passed; but I un- 1183 derstand the Government to give an undertaking that they will meet the difficulty.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKENo; we only undertake to insure that an opportunity shall be given for the submission of such an Amendment as this.
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES)All we undertake is to bring in a Bill in which it will be germane to deal with this question. We promise that my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Bridport (MR. Warton) shall have ample opportunity to raise the question.
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSI quite understand. But then comes a question which I think is rather serious. We do not know what are to be the provisions of the Bill which is to be introduced. Now, my impression is that the expenses of the Returning Officer are quite high enough as they are, and they are upon a great scale. It is quite true that the Sheriff or Returning Officer under the new arrangements will have to incur more expenses; but then he will be able to charge upon the old scale. I do not know why the scale should be raised, and if the Bill which the hon. and learned Gentleman the Attorney General proposes to introduce is to raise the scale of the Returning Officers' charges.
§ THE ATTORNEY GENERAL (Sir HENRY JAMES)I did not say so.
§ SIR R. ASSHETON CROSSWell, I do not know whether it is to do so or not, because the Attorney General has not told us what is to be the scope of his measure. But if it does, I am sure it will have no chance of being read a second time.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKEWe are in the rather awkward position of arguing this matter on a Bill which is not before us. It is obviously entirely out of Order to discuss it now. But all we undertake is to give the assurance for which the hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Warton) asked last night, that there will, for certain, be a Bill to which this clause will be fairly and closely germane.
MR. GORSTsaid, he did not wish to discuss the matter now, as another opportunity was to be given for raising the question; but he regretted that his hon. and learned Friend the Member for Bridport (Mr. Warton) should have got 1184 rid of those admirable principles which he espoused two years ago.
§ MR. WARTONI beg your pardon.
MR. GORSTsaid, that the object of the Amendment to the Parliamentary Elections (Corrupt and Illegal Practices) Act of 1883 was not to deal with the question of scale, but to protect candidates at Parliamentary Elections from having expenses in addition to the scale imposed upon them by the Returning Officer. Although the candidate was legally responsible, he was perfectly helpless in the hands of the Returning Officer, and would have no chance of being returned otherwise.
§ Question put, and negatived.
§ SIR CHARLES W. DILKENo Amendments having been made, I ask that, by leave of the House, the Bill may be read a third time.
§ Bill read the third time, and passed.