HC Deb 05 March 1885 vol 295 cc102-3
MR. HEALY

asked Mr. Chancellor of the Exchequer, To what purpose it is proposed to apply the £25,000 per annum to be saved by the Irish Judicature Act Amendment Bill?

MR. T. A. DICKSON

May I ask the right hon. Gentleman, Whether the Government are really serious about pressing forward this Bill this Session?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS)

Yes, Sir. In reply to the Question of the hon. and learned Member for Monaghan (Mr. Healy), I have to say that there will be little or no immediate saving effected by the Bill; but, ultimately, when all the Judges whose places are not to be filled have retired, and their pensions have lapsed by death, the saving will be about £17,000 a-year. There will be no special application of the saving; but the charge on the Consolidated Fund will be diminished by that amount. The hon. and learned Gentleman should remember that the salary list of the Irish Judicial Bench is now more than one-half that of the English, although the population is only a little over one-sixth, and it is nearly twice that of the Scotch, although Ireland has less than one-third additional population.

MR. GIBSON

I rise to Order. The right hon. Gentleman has been asked a Question, and he has answered it. He is now making a speech, going into matters of a debatable nature?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUER (Mr. CHILDERS)

No, Sir; I am giving to the House and the hon. and learned Gentleman who has asked me a certain Question as to the saving of expense in the Irish Courts, some figures to show what that expense is. I think that is entirely relevant to the Question. In England the Court fees received cover the cost of the administrative department; but in Ireland there is a deficit charged to the taxpayer.

MR. GIBSON

I must again rise to Order. I ask you, Mr. Speaker, if the right hon. Gentleman is in Order, having answered the Question, to go into these matters, which are subjects of debate and discussion?

MR. SPEAKEE

I understand the right hon. Gentleman is only stating facts in answer to the Question.

THE OH ANOELLOE OF THE EXCHEQUEE (Mr. CHILDERS)

I will repeat what I was stating when the right hon. and learned Gentleman interrupted me—that in England the Court fees cover the cost of the administrative department, whereas in Ireland there is a deficit charged on the taxpayers of £70,000 a-year MR. HEALY: I beg to give Notice that unless the saving of £17,000 a-year effected by this Bill be applied to some useful Irish object, I will give the Bill my most determined opposition.

MR. AETHUE O'CONNOE

asked, whether it was intended to apply any of the saving to the purpose of the Judicial Bench in England?

THE CHANCELLOR OF THE EXCHEQUEE (Mr. CHILDERS)

Certainly not.