§ MR. MARUMasked the Chief Secretary to the Lord Lieutenant of Ireland, Whether his attention has been directed to the observations of the Secretary of State for the Home Department, made upon the 15th day of July last, defining the province of the Executive Government as follows:—
In England the Executive Government is not the conservator of the peace. The conservation of the peace is intrusted to the magistrates in the different localities for which they have jurisdiction. They are the conservators of the peace, and the Executive Government and the Secretary of Stats have no authority to give any orders whatever to the magistrates in this matter;whether the Executive Government in Ireland are in the habit of issuing from time to time circulars to the local magistracy purporting to define their duties; whether such circulars are framed in the shape or form of orders or directions, and whether care is taken that they are shaped so as to be interpreted merely as containing information and advice by way of instruction and not as orders or directions; whether this is the case, especially in regard to resident magistrates, and whether such latter are clearly instructed that their judicial functions are distinct and separate from their executive or ministerial functions, if such there be, exerciseable by them; 1772 whether he is aware that the Home Secretary, speaking of the principle upon which the Home Office acted in 1867, and down to 1882, of giving advice to local authorities as to assemblies and processions, further said—But unfortunately the doctrine on which it was based was challenged. In a particular case the magistrates ordered that a meeting should not he held, on the ground that information had been sworn that there was danger of a breach of the peace, and the Queen's Bench Division of the High Court of Justice declared that the magistrates had no authority to stop a meeting in these circumstances. … There fore, I say, since that decision (Beatty and others, Appellants, Gillbanks, Respondent, 13th June 1882), the power to stop processsions on these grounds seemed to be put an end to, and they could not be prohibited;whether the local authorities of Derry, upon the recent occasion, issued a prohibitory proclamation or notice purporting to suppress a public meeting or procession, grounded upon a sworn information, that a breach of the peace was likely to occur; whether such local magistracy, or the local executive of Derry, were instructed or advised by the Government that to issue a proclamation to suppress lawful assembly or lawful procession, or to stop the same, even if they knew, upon sworn information, that the same would be opposed, and had like good reason to suppose that a breach of the peace would be committed by those opposed to it, was not warranted by Law; but that the duty of the local magistrates in such case was to apply to the executive for such sufficient police force and military aid, if needs be, as would effectually protect such lawful assembly and such processionists in the exercise of that constitutional right of lawful assembly and procession; and, whether the Chief Secretary is prepared to qualify his statement—But there was to be a procession, and the magistrates of Derry thought it to be their duty to prevent the procession,so as not to leave such expression possible to be misunderstood as an approval of the action of the Derry magistrates in so issuing a prohibitory proclamation against such lawful assembly and procession, especially when it is held in mind that the Lord Lieutenant possesses absolute power in his discretion to prohibit any public meeting whatever in Ireland, under s. 10, 45 and 46 Vic. c. 25?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANThe Executive Government in Ireland 1773 are not in the habit of issuing to local magistrates Circulars purporting to define their duties. Circulars have, from time to time, been issued to Resident Magistrates in relation to their duties; but such have been issued for information, and not as orders or directions, and do not relate to any particular case. It is true that the local magistrates in Derry, upon the recent occasion referred to, issued a proclamation prohibiting the procession, and they were not instructed or advised by the Government in the terms suggested. Magistrates are conservators of the peace; and it would not, in our opinion, be desirable to fetter them in the discharge of their duties by laying down abstract rules as to the legality or necessity of stopping processions. The circumstances of each case must be considered, especially in the North of Ireland, and regard must be had to the consequences of a procession passing through such a town as Derry, with bands and banners, in a manner which the magistrates might fairly consider to be a challenge addressed to an opposite faction. The law in Ireland, as established by the highest Court in that country, upon full review of the English case referred to, is, that if magistrates have reasonable grounds for arriving at the belief that the only mode in which they can discharge their duty of preserving the public peace on a particular occasion is by the stopping of a procession, they are justified in doing so. The Government see no reason for thinking that in this instance the magistrates of Derry did not take the proper or legal measures for preserving the public peace.
§ MR. SEXTONCan the right hon. Gentleman say how it is that the magistrates in Derry can do, under particular circumstances, that which the English Judges say they have not power to do under any circumstances?
§ [No reply.]
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORI would ask the right right hon. Gentleman, whether the magistrates would have power, in England, to prevent a Salvation Army procession passing through a portion of the town with bands and banners because it might be objectionable to a certain portion of the inhabitants of the place?
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANIf the hon. Member for Galway (Mr. T. P. O'Connor) has any Question to put regarding the Salvation Army, he should address it to the Secretary of State for the Home Department. We must govern Ireland by Irish laws. ["Hear, hear!"] I was not aware, until I heard that cheer, that hon. Members opposite would prefer Ireland to be governed by English laws. The decision of the Court of Appeal in Ireland has been in the sense to which I have referred.
§ MR. CAMPBELL-BANNERMANIf the hon. Gentleman puts a Notice on the Paper, I will give him a reference.
§ MR. HEALYIf the right hon. Gentleman refers to the case of "O'Kelly v. Hervey," the circumstances are not at all parallel.
§ MR. T. P. O'CONNORI would ask the Under Secretary of State for the Home Department, whether a Salvation Army procession would be prevented by the magistrates from marching through a particular district with bands and banners because it might be obnoxious to a certain portion of the population?
§ Mr. H. H. FOWLERwas rising to answer the Question, when——
§ MR. SPEAKERcalled for the next Question on the Notice Paper.