HC Deb 28 July 1885 vol 300 cc380-2

Resolutions [27th July] reported.

Resolutions 1 to 29, inclusive, agreed to. (30.) "That a Supplementary sum, not exceeding £16,000, be granted to Her Majesty, to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March 1886, in Aid of the Cost of Maintenance of Disturnpiked and Main Roads in England and Wales during the year ending on the 25th day of March 1886.


said, that this was a Vote of £16,000 for Disturnpiked and other Roads in England and Wales. There had already been voted £215,000 for roads in England and Wales, and £35,000 for roads in Scotland. The Votes taken for County Court Houses and Sheriffs' Courts brought the sum that had been voted in easement of the taxation of counties in England, Scotland, and Wales, to the round figure of £350,000. There was nothing of the kind voted for Ireland. A similar sum voted to Ireland would amount to something like £3,500 to each county in easement of local taxation. He would like to hear what was the reason of such an enormous sum being given in aid of local taxation in England, Scotland, and Wales, and not a farthing being given to Ireland?


reminded the hon. Gentleman (Mr. Marum) that the present arrangement was made by the late Government two years ago. The subvention was not given to Ireland, because in that country there was no Carriage Tax. Of course, the Government had not pretended to give a reconsideration to the whole question of subventions in aid of local taxation. All they had done was to take the basis laid down by their Predecessors, and, in accordance with that basis, to propose to the Committee the Supplementary Estimate which was absolutely necessary. Any reconsideration of the question which might be necessary must be reserved for a future time.


said, it was no argument to say that this subvention was not extended to Ireland, because there was no Carriage Tax in that country. All the Imperial taxation levied in Ireland had been measured against the Imperial taxation levied in England, by ascertaining what Income Tax it would take in order to pay off the taxation. In England, an Income Tax of 2s. 6d. in the pound would discharge all the Imperial taxation; but it would require an Income Tax of 5s. 3d. in the pound to discharge all the taxation which was levied in Ireland. He did not want to argue the point now; but it was ridiculous to talk about the non-extension of assessed taxation to Ireland, when Ireland paid in proportion to her income more than double England paid upon her income.


said, he did not think this was the time to enter into the consideration of the imposition of assessed taxes in Ireland, and, therefore, if his hon. Friend (Mr. Marum) went to a division, he (Sir Patrick O'Brien) would vote in opposition to him.


said, the argument used by the right hon. Gentleman (Mr. A. J. Balfour) was a very dangerous one for Irish ratepayers. The fact remained that money was voted in aid of local taxation in England and Scotland, and none was voted for a similar purpose in Ireland. It was said that Ireland did not pay a Carriage Tax; but the Irish people paid an enormous sum upon their alcohol. It was very hard that a rich country like England should receive a handsome grant towards its roads, and that a poor country like Ireland should receive nothing at all. However, he did not wish to press the matter now, because the present Government had not had time to turn their attention to it.

Resolution agreed to.

Remaining Resolutions agreed to.